11:37:17 RRSAgent has joined #data-shapes 11:37:21 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/08/11-data-shapes-irc 11:37:21 Zakim has joined #data-shapes 11:37:47 meeting: Data Shapes Working Group 11:37:49 agenda: https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/blob/agenda/admin/agenda-2025-08-04.md 11:37:50 clear agenda 11:37:50 agenda+ Discussion 11:37:50 agenda+ Process 11:39:07 clear agenda 11:39:48 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/11-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed 11:40:17 agenda+ Phase 2 subgroups statuses 11:40:18 agenda+ ValidationReport conformance values 11:40:18 agenda+ What to do about current SHACL permalinks - https://www.w3.org/TR/shacl/? 11:40:18 agenda+ Total SHACL namespaces 11:40:18 agenda+ Adding visual diagrams to specs 11:40:54 previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/08/04-data-shapes-minutes.html 11:40:54 next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/08/18-data-shapes-minutes.html 11:41:27 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/11-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed 11:54:20 elianaP has joined #data-shapes 11:58:58 chair: elianaP 11:59:10 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/11-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed 11:59:16 agenda? 11:59:27 Robert has joined #data-shapes 11:59:33 present+ 12:00:16 YoucTagh has joined #data-shapes 12:00:27 ieben has joined #data-shapes 12:00:41 present+ 12:01:01 bergos has joined #data-shapes 12:01:26 VladimirAlexiev has joined #data-shapes 12:02:04 simonstey has joined #data-shapes 12:02:11 mgberg has joined #data-shapes 12:02:18 AndyS has joined #data-shapes 12:02:33 present+ 12:02:39 Zakim, open first item 12:02:39 I don't understand 'open first item', TallTed 12:02:43 Zakim, open item 1 12:02:43 agendum 1 -- Phase 2 subgroups statuses -- taken up [from TallTed] 12:02:43 SimonW has joined #data-shapes 12:02:52 nicholascar has joined #data-shapes 12:02:57 present+ 12:03:04 HolgerK has joined #data-shapes 12:03:04 present+ 12:03:10 present+ 12:03:14 Reminder call for consensus: 1st version of rules, node expressions and compact syntax 12:03:26 present+ 12:03:34 edmond has joined #data-shapes 12:03:36 present+ 12:03:42 present+ 12:03:49 q+ 12:03:53 s/Reminder call/elianaP: Reminder call 12:04:06 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/11-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed 12:04:12 present+ 12:04:12 present+ 12:04:12 q? 12:04:23 present+ 12:04:26 simonstey has joined #data-shapes 12:04:30 nicholascar profiling subgroup starting this week 12:04:33 present+ 12:04:54 present+ 12:05:26 nicholascar request for profiling outline 12:05:43 s/nicholascar request/nicholascar: request 12:05:52 s/nicholascar profiling/nicholascar: profiling 12:06:01 The PR starting a Profiling Doc Intro: https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/pull/489 12:06:09 s/nicholascar profiling/nicholascar: profiling/ 12:06:49 me - Robert also if it is the same person as lastlien the scribe types, then the line can be "... TEXT" (3 dots) 12:07:03 edmond: UI group starting, doodle for meeting 12:07:32 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/11-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed 12:08:15 i/chair: elianaP/scribe: Robert/ 12:08:26 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/11-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed 12:08:51 VladimirAlexiev: compact syntax status; enough people? 12:10:20 AndyS: update on validation reports; service keyword allowed? 12:12:07 q? 12:12:16 ack nicholascar 12:12:16 q+ 12:13:01 HolgerK: questions with only a few people interested, e.g. service keyword 12:13:10 ... how to deal with such situations. 12:13:29 q+ 12:13:39 nicholascar: https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/pull/489 is PR starting a Profiling Doc Intro: 12:13:39 ack me 12:14:19 q+ 12:14:22 bergos: voting via comments 12:14:38 I'm emailing Jesse Wright asking for update on SHACL-C WG: plans, schedule, participants... 12:14:47 bergos: communicate deadline; 1 week for comments 12:15:40 TallTed: ok to have issues last for weeks; no urgency for now 12:16:09 ... difficult foe people to keep up with issues. More time necessary. 12:16:25 https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/issues/453 12:16:49 q+ 12:16:56 ack me 12:17:02 ack bergos 12:18:18 elianaP: decision - voting in the issue with clear deadline 12:18:49 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/11-data-shapes-minutes.html AndyS 12:19:23 nicholascar: permalinks - where will links point? 12:19:45 ... mapping where links without versions will point? 12:20:14 q+ 12:20:16 ... where will af links point? 12:21:06 AndyS: same as OWL; seems to point to overview. 12:21:29 simonstey: disclaimer for outdated spec 12:21:59 nicholascar: old shacl should point to shacl core 12:22:42 Here is the spec list in Overview: https://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/shacl12-overview/#shacl-1-2 12:23:56 Here is the Overview spec listing: https://raw.githack.com/w3c/data-shapes/profiling-updates/shacl12-profiling/index.html#shacl-specifications 12:25:38 nicholascar: namespaces for shacl; should we use 1 namespace for all shacl assets (rules, ui, ...) 12:25:39 q+ 12:25:44 ack me 12:26:46 HolgerK: we already have 2 namespaces (shacl, sparql). Assumption that there will be more + mixed up. 12:26:48 +1 for a single *basic* namespace. the SHACL ontology is not too large to warrant splitting into subspaces. 12:26:57 ack HolgerK 12:27:13 ... suggest to intro a new namespace. 12:27:44 q+ 12:27:55 HolgerK: expect to have dozens of namepaces; db vendors, geosparql, ... 12:28:35 q+ to suggest shsparql: instead of sparql:, which feels like squatting, since we don't control SPARQL itself 12:29:52 q+ 12:30:03 q- 12:30:08 ack me 12:30:08 TallTed, you wanted to suggest shsparql: instead of sparql:, which feels like squatting, since we don't control SPARQL itself 12:30:19 ack VladimirAlexiev 12:30:38 VladimirAlexiev: propose single namespace if possible; people get confused with many namespaces 12:31:06 ... node expressions should be different namespace. 12:31:22 ... vendors use their own namespace; e.g. dash. 12:31:46 q+ 12:32:10 bergos +1 for less namespaces 12:33:06 ... but node expressions should be different namespace. 12:33:17 ack me 12:33:32 +1 for "when we see a bunch of reusable functions forming up, put them in namespace different from sh: , because people may reuse them outside of SHACL" 12:34:25 VladimirAlexiev: diagrams should be added to spec 12:35:16 ... grammar diagram for property paths added 12:35:40 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/11-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed 12:35:57 https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/issues/166 12:36:12 https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/pull/471 12:36:44 https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/pull/487 12:37:08 https://raw.githack.com/vladimiralexiev/data-shapes/issue-486-ValidationReport-UML/shacl12-core/index.html#validation-report 12:37:56 https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/pull/483 12:39:03 ... diagrams help with understanding for readers. 12:40:16 ... how to maintain diagrams? 12:40:27 q+ 12:41:09 AndyS: tools (for diagrams) outside of w3c control ok? 12:41:38 q+ 12:41:39 ... dark mode support for respec? 12:42:11 VladimirAlexiev: svg diagrams 12:42:44 VladimirAlexiev: dark mode support for plantuml is there. 12:43:07 AndyS: dark mode needs to be dynamic. 12:43:13 q- 12:43:42 ack next 12:44:31 rdf 1.2 has https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf12-concepts/rdf-graph.svg 12:44:47 VladimirAlexiev: we need svg. 12:44:54 +1 to SVG! 12:44:59 ack me 12:45:06 +1 for svgs 12:46:02 AndyS: partial diagrams might not help; take up space. 12:46:20 q+ 12:46:23 VladimirAlexiev: diagrams most useful for compact syntax. 12:47:52 q+ 12:48:03 HolgerK: include diagrams, but off by default. 12:48:33 q+ 12:48:36 ... button to show diagrams. User can decide if diagrams are shown. 12:48:42 ack HolgerK 12:49:25 https://www.w3.org/TR/dcat-ucr/ 12:49:54 I like disclosure triangle or similar. Best if accessible wherever such diagram would be if enabled, so user doesn't have to know about this disclosure option in the introduction when they're looking at Section 4.5 or whatever. 12:50:11 ack me 12:50:26 SSN has simple/full diagram options: https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-ssn/#Observations 12:50:36 VladimirAlexiev has joined #data-shapes 12:51:17 https://www.w3.org/TR/owl2-primer/ 12:51:51 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/11-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed 12:52:26 ack me 12:52:41 s/this disclosure option in the introduction/this disclosure option being in the introduction/ 12:53:36 q+ 12:53:57 simonstey: volunteers to look into syntax highlighting until next meeting. 12:54:11 q+ 12:54:26 ... use something that respec already provides. 12:56:34 nicholascar: markdown tools for syntax highlighting; used for turtle. 12:57:47 ack me 12:59:30 bergos: focus node highlighted. Active for json-ld. 13:00:35 VladimirAlexiev: only highlighting on shapes graph, not data graph. 13:02:08 RRSAgent, draft minutes 13:02:09 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/11-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed 13:03:54 Request for next time - status on horizontal review and CR 13:04:31 AndyS noted! 13:05:12 s/horizontal/wide/ 13:05:31 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/11-data-shapes-minutes.html AndyS 13:16:00 i/update on validation reports/topic: ValidationReport conformance values 13:17:14 i|permalinks - where will links|topic: What to do about current SHACL permalinks - https://www.w3.org/TR/shacl/? | 13:18:10 i/namespaces for shacl; should we use/topic: Total SHACL namespaces 13:20:05 i/diagrams should be added to spec/topic: Adding visual diagrams to specs/ 13:20:11 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/11-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed 13:20:48 Zakim, end meeting 13:20:48 As of this point the attendees have been Robert, TallTed, bergos, nicholascar, SimonW, HolgerK, VladimirAlexiev, AndyS, edmond, elianaP, ieben, mgberg, simonstey, YoucTagh 13:20:51 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 13:20:53 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/11-data-shapes-minutes.html Zakim 13:20:58 I am happy to have been of service, TallTed; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 13:20:58 Zakim has left #data-shapes 13:21:02 RRSAgent, bye 13:21:02 I see no action items