IRC log of wcag2ict on 2025-07-31

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13:59:14 [RRSAgent]

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/07/31-wcag2ict-irc

13:59:18 [Zakim]

RRSAgent, make logs Public

13:59:19 [GreggVan]

present+

13:59:19 [Zakim]

Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference

13:59:21 [maryjom]

chair: Mary Jo Mueller

13:59:31 [maryjom]

rrsagent, make minutes

13:59:32 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/31-wcag2ict-minutes.html maryjom

13:59:39 [maryjom]

Zakim, please time speakers at 2 minutes

13:59:39 [Zakim]

ok, maryjom

13:59:40 [maryjom]

agenda+ Announcements

13:59:48 [maryjom]

agenda+ PR Proposal approvals

13:59:56 [maryjom]

regrets: Phil Day, Loïc Martínez Normand, Jen Strickland

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14:00:52 [Mike_Pluke]

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14:01:41 [bbailey]

present+

14:01:48 [Mike_Pluke]

present+

14:01:55 [maryjom]

present+

14:02:05 [ChrisLoiselle]

I shall scribe.

14:02:11 [ChrisLoiselle]

scribe: ChrisLoiselle

14:02:31 [ChrisLoiselle]

agenda?

14:03:00 [ChrisLoiselle]

zakim, take up next

14:03:02 [Zakim]

agendum 1 -- Announcements -- taken up [from maryjom]

14:03:30 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: Work for week is the agenda for this meeting.

14:04:06 [ChrisLoiselle]

No other announcements other than we are getting in all the changes we are working on.

14:04:07 [ChrisLoiselle]

q?

14:04:29 [ChrisLoiselle]

2 week process. 1 for review, 1 for CfC that follows

14:05:18 [ChrisLoiselle]

We will name what was changed or added.

14:05:39 [ChrisLoiselle]

zakim, take up next

14:05:39 [Zakim]

agendum 2 -- PR Proposal approvals -- taken up [from maryjom]

14:05:44 [Daniel]

-> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/737 Editorial tweaks

14:06:24 [ChrisLoiselle]

Daniel: Potential change in paragraphs on regulations that make use of WCAG2ICT. We'd need to cover that prior.

14:07:25 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: Please make any comments if you have any. We are close on that and may get incorporated soon.

14:07:42 [maryjom]

TOPIC: Issue 736: 1.4.12 - Should software-only parts of Note 2 be split into a separate note?

14:07:58 [maryjom]

Link to issue 736: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/736

14:09:15 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: Proposal 2 splits non-web software vs. non-web documents.

14:09:35 [Mike_Pluke]

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14:09:50 [Mike_Pluke]

Q+

14:10:27 [ChrisLoiselle]

Gregg: Split it for non-web documents and non-web software?

14:10:44 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: Yes.

14:10:48 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: What do you think?

14:10:59 [bbailey]

I like it.

14:11:02 [ChrisLoiselle]

Mike: I like it.

14:11:07 [ChrisLoiselle]

+1 from Chris

14:11:39 [maryjom]

•DRAFT RESOLUTION: For 1.4.12, incorporate proposal 2 from Issue 736 into the editor’s draft, as-is

14:11:51 [bbailey]

+1

14:11:52 [ChrisLoiselle]

+1

14:11:58 [Mike_Pluke]

+1

14:12:00 [GreggVan]

+1

14:12:05 [maryjom]

RESOLUTION: For 1.4.12, incorporate proposal 2 from Issue 736 into the editor’s draft, as-is

14:12:32 [maryjom]

TOPIC: Issue 740: 2.1.1 Keyboard - Should we add a precondition scoping this SC?

14:12:45 [maryjom]

Link to issue 740: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/740

14:12:57 [maryjom]

Link to PR 744: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/744

14:13:37 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: Mike came up with idea on device independent keyboard interface services are.

14:14:33 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: I had added to precondition in preview 744.

14:15:01 [bbailey]

q+

14:15:05 [ChrisLoiselle]

I proposed different proposals in the preview

14:15:06 [ChrisLoiselle]

q?

14:15:07 [maryjom]

ack Mike_Pluke

14:15:47 [ChrisLoiselle]

Mike: The second sentence may not be necessary but helps with understanding.

14:15:49 [ChrisLoiselle]

q?

14:16:48 [ChrisLoiselle]

Gregg: last sentence helps with misunderstanding. Was there a reason why to remove second sentence?

14:17:11 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: An onscreen keyboard wouldn't be using a device independent.

14:17:11 [ChrisLoiselle]

q?

14:17:13 [maryjom]

ack bbailey

14:17:35 [ChrisLoiselle]

Bruce: I am in favor on mentioning on screen keyboards. Perhaps it has its own note?

14:17:36 [ChrisLoiselle]

q?

14:18:15 [ChrisLoiselle]

+1 to what is discussed on proposal 2 for me!

14:18:22 [ChrisLoiselle]

ack bbailey

14:18:22 [ChrisLoiselle]

q?

14:19:09 [ChrisLoiselle]

Gregg: If we split it off, do we talk to it being based on language of provision?

14:19:19 [ChrisLoiselle]

Gregg: I.e. explain the why.

14:19:45 [bbailey]

I agree the sentence needs a bit of wordsmithing when it is a stand-alone note.

14:20:37 [GreggVan]

Inclusion of an on-screen keyboard can be done as well but does not meet this requirement since it does not allow for the use of keyboard alternatives where as support of input from the device-independent keyboard interface service does.

14:20:54 [ChrisLoiselle]

Wordsmithing on PUll 744 is shared and Gregg includes his proposal in IRC

14:21:52 [bbailey]

looks good

14:22:02 [Mike_Pluke]

good for me too

14:22:51 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: commits 744 proposal 2 edit.

14:23:14 [maryjom]

DRAFT RESOLUTION: For 2.1.1, incorporate Proposal 2 as edited in PR 744 during the meeting

14:23:15 [GreggVan]

+1

14:23:25 [ChrisLoiselle]

+1

14:23:30 [bbailey]

+1

14:23:39 [ChrisLoiselle]

q?

14:23:51 [Mike_Pluke]

+1

14:23:52 [maryjom]

RESOLUTION: For 2.1.1, incorporate Proposal 2 as edited in PR 744 during the meeting

14:24:10 [maryjom]

TOPIC: Issue 704: 1.4.4 Resize Text: EN 301 549 did not incorporate our updated notes

14:24:20 [maryjom]

Link to issue 704: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/704

14:24:31 [maryjom]

Link to the Google doc with proposals: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VN1LQG_iI6ySWSc-XBgfE6d_aHQRUy_CjMGktPdFenM/edit?usp=sharing

14:25:38 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: First thing to do is adjustments to SC language

14:26:37 [ChrisLoiselle]

q?

14:26:39 [ChrisLoiselle]

q?

14:26:43 [GreggVan]

q+

14:26:47 [maryjom]

ack GreggVan

14:27:25 [ChrisLoiselle]

Gregg: In note 2, we should say something about loss of functionality.

14:27:37 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: I want to make decisions on all 4 parts.

14:28:00 [ChrisLoiselle]

Gregg: I am suggesting proposal edit to proposal 2.

14:29:34 [ChrisLoiselle]

Gregg: I see how you are referencing it in the first part of setence.

14:30:05 [maryjom]

DRAFT RESOLUTION: For 1.4.4, incorporate Proposal 2, allowing for some text resized less than 200% when text resizing is provided by the platform

14:30:15 [bbailey]

+1

14:30:26 [Mike_Pluke]

+1

14:31:13 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: Parallel to web content is text contrast.

14:31:50 [ChrisLoiselle]

+1

14:31:57 [GreggVan]

+1

14:32:00 [maryjom]

RESOLUTION: For 1.4.4, incorporate Proposal 2, allowing for some text resized less than 200% when text resizing is provided by the platform

14:33:04 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: next conversation is on decision 2.

14:34:08 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: If removed software players

14:34:15 [ChrisLoiselle]

q+

14:34:24 [Mike_Pluke]

Q+

14:34:47 [ChrisLoiselle]

Gregg: Are you talking to the software you are applying to?

14:34:52 [maryjom]

ack ChrisLoiselle

14:35:25 [GreggVan]

q+

14:36:14 [GreggVan]

q+ to say

14:36:38 [bbailey]

The old note is really only applicable to non-web documents, so I am for keeping it since we now have split sets of notes.

14:37:01 [maryjom]

ack Mike_Pluke

14:37:23 [GreggVan]

q+ to say "has to be more than "are players" it has to be all players that this might be played on -- or all popular viewers.

14:37:24 [ChrisLoiselle]

Mike: I would remove second software and talk to viewers or editors

14:37:26 [ChrisLoiselle]

q?

14:37:29 [maryjom]

ack GreggVan

14:37:29 [Zakim]

GreggVan, you wanted to say and to say "has to be more than "are players" it has to be all players that this might be played on -- or all popular viewers.

14:37:29 [bbailey]

So to answer highlighted question, if added back in, it only applies to non-web documents.

14:38:41 [ChrisLoiselle]

Gregg: Says if there are editors or viewers with 200 percent feature. If we are reading this , it would say that if 200 percent in all browsers, it would meet.

14:39:19 [ChrisLoiselle]

... for web content, maybe state this is automatically met. What are we trying to say on the note? Off the web, it is not automatically met due to not using a browser.

14:39:48 [ChrisLoiselle]

How would an author know if it is? Maybe major platforms provide...

14:40:25 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: Should we have the note or not?

14:40:48 [ChrisLoiselle]

Gregg: depends on OS, does every single app need this?

14:40:51 [ChrisLoiselle]

q+

14:41:34 [maryjom]

ack ChrisLoiselle

14:41:58 [GreggVan]

q+

14:42:30 [maryjom]

ack GreggVan

14:43:17 [ChrisLoiselle]

Gregg: Software, we can talk about platform. For documents , it would be different. Viewed by any platform.

14:43:19 [ChrisLoiselle]

Q?

14:43:42 [ChrisLoiselle]

Gregg: If document only works for platform, then it would work for that viewer...

14:44:14 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: Any other edits?

14:44:28 [maryjom]

DRAFT RESOLUTION: For 1.4.4, re-introduce Note 1, as edited in the Google doc proposal 3.

14:44:32 [Mike_Pluke]

+1

14:44:39 [bbailey]

+1

14:44:49 [ChrisLoiselle]

Gregg: what is the if content will not work with zoom?

14:45:27 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: We had talked to PDF and zooming capabilities.

14:45:41 [ChrisLoiselle]

Gregg: add in that zoom feature.

14:45:42 [ChrisLoiselle]

q?

14:45:48 [ChrisLoiselle]

+1 as edited

14:45:51 [GreggVan]

+1 to 3

14:45:56 [bbailey]

+1 again

14:45:57 [maryjom]

RESOLUTION: For 1.4.4, re-introduce Note 1, as edited in the Google doc proposal 3.

14:46:04 [Mike_Pluke]

+1 again

14:46:46 [ChrisLoiselle]

Decision 3 is being discussed.

14:46:48 [ChrisLoiselle]

q?

14:47:24 [GreggVan]

+1 to proposal 2

14:47:32 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: May not be designated as accessibility features. So removed accessibility from the phrasing.

14:47:34 [ChrisLoiselle]

q?

14:47:41 [Mike_Pluke]

+1 ro proposal 2

14:47:55 [maryjom]

DRAFT RESOLUTION: For 1.4.4, Keep Note 1 from the 2024 WCAG2ICT Proposal 2 from the Google doc, as-is

14:47:58 [GreggVan]

+1

14:48:01 [Mike_Pluke]

+1

14:48:02 [ChrisLoiselle]

+1

14:48:05 [bbailey]

+1

14:48:12 [maryjom]

RESOLUTION: For 1.4.4, Keep Note 1 from the 2024 WCAG2ICT Proposal 2 from the Google doc, as-is

14:48:31 [ChrisLoiselle]

Decision 4 is up next.

14:48:51 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: Now that we changed SC language, is this still needed?

14:49:19 [bbailey]

q+

14:49:27 [GreggVan]

In such cases, authors would ONLY need to support text scaling to the extent provided by user settings in the platform, without losing content or functionality, to satisfy this success criterion.

14:49:38 [GreggVan]

+1

14:49:41 [maryjom]

ack bbailey

14:49:45 [GreggVan]

q+

14:49:49 [ChrisLoiselle]

Bruce: I thought this was addressed per first edit.

14:49:57 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: Exactly, do we still need it?

14:50:08 [maryjom]

ack GreggVan

14:50:53 [ChrisLoiselle]

Gregg: I think we should first sentence to old note. First note that we edited is accurate. I think first half is a useful introduction to the other note.

14:51:43 [ChrisLoiselle]

Gregg: The note we passed in decision 2.

14:51:59 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: This decision 4 is for non web software

14:51:59 [ChrisLoiselle]

q?

14:52:06 [ChrisLoiselle]

Bruce: that makes sense, thanks.

14:52:06 [ChrisLoiselle]

q?

14:52:27 [ChrisLoiselle]

Gregg: Note for non-web software and note for non-web documents.

14:52:28 [ChrisLoiselle]

q?

14:52:48 [bbailey]

very nice

14:52:50 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: Are we happy with proposal 2?

14:53:07 [ChrisLoiselle]

Gregg: Just labeling notes one applying to non web documents and one to non web software

14:53:10 [ChrisLoiselle]

q?

14:53:25 [ChrisLoiselle]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:53:26 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/31-wcag2ict-minutes.html ChrisLoiselle

14:53:51 [maryjom]

DRAFT RESOLUTION: For 1.4.4, Keep the 2024 WCAG2ICT note 2 with changes noted in Proposal 2 from the Google doc

14:53:51 [GreggVan]

+1

14:53:55 [Mike_Pluke]

+1

14:53:57 [ChrisLoiselle]

+1

14:54:19 [bbailey]

+1

14:54:25 [maryjom]

RESOLUTION: For 1.4.4, Keep the 2024 WCAG2ICT note 2 with changes noted in Proposal 2 from the Google doc

14:54:42 [bbailey]

q+

14:54:48 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: We can take a look for proposed changes for regulations section.

14:54:53 [maryjom]

ack bbailey

14:55:34 [ChrisLoiselle]

Bruce: On editorial PR on 737, I put something in the PR.

14:56:01 [ChrisLoiselle]

Talks to line 48 proposed vs. current

14:56:41 [ChrisLoiselle]

Bruce: WCAG is limited to web content. Talks to limitation.

14:56:45 [ChrisLoiselle]

+1 to Bruce

14:56:50 [GreggVan]

+1

14:56:53 [Mike_Pluke]

+1

14:57:24 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: I will update PR 737 per Bruce's proposal per the plus ones on the subject

14:58:51 [ChrisLoiselle]

Gregg: On the question on regulation application, is there anything else on that?

14:59:01 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: It is the PR 737 that Bruce just proposed on.

14:59:11 [ChrisLoiselle]

Gregg: Ok.

15:00:03 [maryjom]

DRAFT RESOLUTION: Incorporate PR 737 into the editor's draft with Bruce's update from the meeting.

15:00:05 [ChrisLoiselle]

+1

15:00:12 [GreggVan]

+1

15:00:16 [bbailey]

+!

15:00:23 [bbailey]

+1

15:00:29 [bbailey]

+1!

15:00:36 [maryjom]

RESOLUTION: Incorporate PR 737 into the editor's draft with Bruce's update from the meeting.

15:00:36 [ChrisLoiselle]

Bruce really liked that one!

15:00:42 [GreggVan]

+1 !!!!!

15:00:51 [Mike_Pluke]

+1

15:01:36 [maryjom]

DRAFT RESOLUTION: Once all PRs have been incorporated, we agree to submit the WCAG2ICT editor's draft to the AG WG for review and approval to publish.

15:01:40 [ChrisLoiselle]

+1

15:01:45 [bbailey]

+1

15:01:48 [GreggVan]

+1 !!!!

15:01:58 [Mike_Pluke]

+1

15:02:06 [maryjom]

RESOLUTION: Once all PRs have been incorporated, we agree to submit the WCAG2ICT editor's draft to the AG WG for review and approval to publish.

15:02:47 [bbailey]

We still have AAA SC?

15:03:17 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: For harmonization with EN , we are good.

15:03:28 [ChrisLoiselle]

MaryJo: Yes, we still have AAA and other work items , yes.

15:13:43 [maryjom]

zakim, end meeting

15:13:43 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been GreggVan, bbailey, Mike_Pluke, maryjom, !

15:13:45 [Zakim]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2

15:13:47 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/31-wcag2ict-minutes.html Zakim

15:13:54 [Zakim]

I am happy to have been of service, maryjom; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye

15:13:54 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #wcag2ict

15:14:01 [maryjom]

rrsagent, bye

15:14:01 [RRSAgent]

I see no action items