14:57:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pointerevents
14:57:48 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/07/30-pointerevents-irc
14:57:49 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Meeting: PEWG
14:57:53 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
14:57:57 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Scribe: Patrick H. Lauke
14:58:03 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ScribeNick: Patrick_H_Lauke
14:58:33 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/66591f6b-6694-4f90-b23d-bf8f1b9dda8a/20250730T110000/
14:58:38 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+
14:58:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> regrets+ smaug
15:00:39 <flackr> flackr has joined #pointerevents
15:02:35 <gastonr> gastonr has joined #pointerevents
15:03:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ flackr
15:03:16 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ gastonr
15:03:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ mustaq
15:03:46 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Web Platform Tests https://wpt.live/pointerevents/ / https://wpt.fyi/results/pointerevents?label=experimental&label=master&aligned
15:04:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: i know we now have all the tests, but wanted to get a feel for how we're actually doing with coverage in browsers
15:06:41 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: i see a big block of problems with the various -touch-action- related tests
15:07:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: I also see a lot of "harness ERROR" / "harness TIMEOUT" problems...
15:07:52 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: yes this may be down to webdriver not supporting touch. recently there's been some movement about testing touch in webdriver, but i don't know if this has been updated here
15:09:21 <mustaq> What about proposing this part of Interop 2026?
15:09:32 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: so i think a good first step from here is to perhaps investigate the various harness problems. not sure if any of you have the ability/time to look at that? we may actually have less "red" than initially apparent
15:10:46 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: a lot of problems seem to be specifically in Safari+harness
15:10:56 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: another block is related to DOM changes
15:11:57 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: those are probably because these weren't defined properly anywhere, and we made a "sensible" call on this. not surprising that browsers haven't coalesced towards it
15:12:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Robert: yeah we were getting different results in all browsers. Is anybody at Apple aware/working on this?
15:12:48 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: i see that's part of interop so should be aware
15:12:53 <mustaq> https://wpt.fyi/results/pointerevents?label=master&label=experimental&aligned&view=interop&q=label%3Ainterop-2023-events
15:13:07 <mustaq> Interop 2025 covers only ~2 of the DOM-change tests.
15:14:28 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: if only 2 in interop 2025, then worth making sure the remaining ones make it into interop 2026
15:14:48 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: just checked, it's 3, not 2
15:16:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: so i don't think it's a big worry the amount of red we have now, but would be good to at least investigate the cases where the harness is causing problems/not supporting the testing properly (particularly in Safari)
15:18:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: anybody want to officially take on the task of investigating what's going on with harness in WPT
15:18:36 <Patrick_H_Lauke> gastorn: i could give it a go
15:18:49 <Patrick_H_Lauke> s/gastorn/gastonr
15:19:35 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: Safari devs did mention (?) that they don't want to test touch with webdriver, but at last year's TPAC they mentioned they are working on their own webdriver (?)
15:20:54 <Patrick_H_Lauke> s/Safari devs did mention (?) that they don't want to test touch with webdriver/
15:22:57 <mustaq> Safari mentioned adding WebDriver support for touch during last year TPAC but I don't know much beyond that.
15:23:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Gaston to have look at WPT harness issues, Rob and Mustaq to help out/point in right direction if needed
15:23:37 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Recharter https://www.w3.org/2023/11/wg-pointer-events-charter.html
15:24:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: i noticed that our charter runs out november 2025. I will get in touch with PLH to see what we need to do
15:26:24 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Patrick to talk to PLH about charter extension/recharter
15:26:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Any particular old or new issues that we want to start thinking about/tackling? https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues
15:27:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: we were looking at https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/542
15:29:06 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: pull request for this https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/460
15:29:18 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: i'm aware of the problem about the pseudoelements
15:30:11 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: ... we are looking at exposing events to pseudoelements (a separate attribute on the event)
15:30:19 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: pretty sure this has been in CSS WG
15:31:24 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: i think there is possible path. if we have that, then there's the possibility of solving issue with a pseudoelement target attribute. other alternatives, like a boundary for clicks that can be opted in
15:31:49 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: do we expect those proposals to become part of PE?
15:32:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: not necessarily...maybe CSS WG, but there's crossover similar to touch-action
15:32:34 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: we need another issue then ... we need to hold back PR 460
15:33:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: the PR just says hold back sending click. and handwaves/magics away the exact HOW
15:34:03 <mustaq> The list of options Rob suggested appears here: https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/542#issuecomment-3079413377
15:35:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: I would say let's keep #460 for another 2 weeks until our next meeting, and then merge. just to make sure we're not missing a nuance
15:37:40 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: i will be on vacation during our next meeting
15:38:06 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: we'll keep this short, unless there's any other open issues you want to discuss right now. thank you all for attending, see you next time
15:38:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, make logs world-visible
15:38:19 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:38:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/30-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
15:40:04 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, bye
15:40:04 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2025/07/30-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
15:40:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Gaston to have look at WPT harness issues, Rob and Mustaq to help out/point in right direction if needed [1]
15:40:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/07/30-pointerevents-irc#T15-23-20
15:40:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Patrick to talk to PLH about charter extension/recharter [2]
15:40:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/07/30-pointerevents-irc#T15-26-24