14:23:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
14:23:15 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/07/25-rdf-star-irc
14:23:21 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make slogs public', AndyS.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:23:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/25-rdf-star-minutes.html AndyS
14:24:07 <AndyS> meeting: SPARQL TF
14:24:30 <AndyS> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/07/24-rdf-star-minutes.html
14:24:35 <AndyS> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/07/31-rdf-star-minutes.html
14:24:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/25-rdf-star-minutes.html AndyS
14:25:20 <AndyS> meeting: RDF-Star WG SPARQL Task Force
14:25:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/25-rdf-star-minutes.html AndyS
14:25:52 <AndyS> char: AndyS
14:25:57 <AndyS> chair: AndyS
14:26:12 <AndyS> Regrets: pfps
14:26:58 <TallTed> TallTed has joined #rdf-star
14:27:09 <AndyS> zakim, start meeting
14:27:09 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:27:11 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), AndyS
14:27:55 <AndyS> meeting: RDF & SPARQL WG - SPARQL Task Force
14:30:48 <AndyS> present+
14:31:02 <olaf> olaf has joined #rdf-star
14:31:40 <gtw> present+
14:32:01 <Tpt> present+
14:32:05 <james> james has joined #rdf-star
14:32:14 <TallTed> present+
14:32:34 <olaf> present+
14:32:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/25-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
14:33:11 <AndyS> s/char: AndyS//
14:33:12 <james> present+
14:33:12 <TallTed> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/07/24-rdf-star-minutes.html
14:33:12 <TallTed> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/07/31-rdf-star-minutes.html
14:33:57 <AndyS> open item 1
14:34:16 <olaf> scribe+
14:34:22 <TallTed> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/ffcebe59-f304-495a-bb7d-3a9c2c4dd5f7/20250725T143000/
14:34:22 <agendabot> clear agenda
14:34:22 <agendabot> agenda+ Scribe?
14:34:22 <agendabot> agenda+ Continue discussion: subqueries -- LATERAL-like and parameterization-like behaviours
14:34:22 <agendabot> agenda+ Strawpoll
14:34:22 <agendabot> agenda+ Topic for next time
14:34:31 <AndyS> zakim, next item
14:34:31 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Scribe? -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:34:34 <AndyS> zakim, next item
14:34:34 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, AndyS
14:34:46 <AndyS> zakim, close item 1
14:34:46 <Zakim> agendum 1, Scribe?, closed
14:34:47 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:34:47 <Zakim> 2. Continue discussion: subqueries -- LATERAL-like and parameterization-like behaviours [from agendabot]
14:35:08 <TallTed> s/char: AndyS//
14:35:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/25-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
14:35:23 <gtw> do we need to open item 2 after closing 1?
14:35:28 <AndyS> zakim, open item 2
14:35:28 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Continue discussion: subqueries -- LATERAL-like and parameterization-like behaviours -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:35:56 <olaf> AndyS: about parameterization, there are some advantages and disadv.
14:36:02 <james> q+
14:36:20 <olaf> ... we need understand them for the road ahead
14:36:32 <olaf> ... in particular the security impact
14:36:42 <AndyS> ack james
14:36:52 <TallTed> s|s/char: AndyS//||
14:37:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/25-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
14:37:28 <olaf> james: What are the security issues you have in mind?
14:37:41 <olaf> s/issues/risks
14:38:06 <olaf> AndyS: you outlined the main one, which is whether the query is expressed as intended
14:38:30 <olaf> ... you can get denial of service attacks
14:39:16 <olaf> ... the discussion/assumption on SPARQL-DEV are more about reuse of variables
14:40:34 <olaf> james: My perspective, I would estimate that half of the queries against our endpoints are views.
14:41:36 <olaf> ... These views have a name, known to the service, become the third name in the URL.
14:42:58 <olaf> ... People who design the queries use ?v variables for matching and $v variables as parameters.
14:44:24 <olaf> ... The service doesn't enforce any constraints on that.
14:44:58 <olaf> AndyS: Is there some documentation for it?
14:45:07 <olaf> james: Need to look for it.
14:45:57 <olaf> ... So, no problem with it for us.
14:47:00 <olaf> ... Certainly not on the private / payed endpoints, but also not seen on the public endpoints.
14:47:47 <olaf> AndyS: Any thoughts on the LATERAL-like option?
14:48:00 <olaf> james: Those distinctions are a bit confusing for me.
14:48:26 <olaf> ... We support deep bindings, which is a bit like a cross over of the two options.
14:49:01 <olaf> AndyS: Jena renames the part of hidden variables.
14:49:12 <olaf> ... The execution then is projection sensitive.
14:49:21 <AndyS> s/the part/apart/
14:49:51 <olaf> james: If they are renamed, they are not usable as user parameters
14:51:33 <olaf> AndyS: Another possible expectation is that the values given for the parameters also come out.
14:51:49 <olaf> james: We provide additional BINDs for this.
14:52:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/25-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
14:53:16 <olaf> Tpt: Yes, I have parameterization, which uses the same as EXIST.
14:53:41 <olaf> ... We may have a propagation mechanism for EXISTS and LATERAL.
14:54:03 <olaf> ... which would be a syntactic replacement, everywhere.
14:55:04 <olaf> ... We may have a new syntax for this, such that the processor fails with an error if not all parameters are substituted.
14:55:27 <olaf> AndyS: So, you have an early fail.
14:55:35 <olaf> Tpt: Yes, like in SQL.
14:56:42 <AndyS> zakim, next item
14:56:42 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Strawpoll -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:56:43 <james> q+
14:57:09 <AndyS> ack james
14:57:26 <olaf> james: General question: in what form are we going to communicate our conclusions to the WG?
14:57:38 <olaf> AndyS: write up in a PR
14:57:59 <olaf> james: So, we need to get to a point where we have consensus on a PR.
14:58:11 <olaf> AndyS: Yes, but that PR may also include issue notes.
14:58:33 <olaf> ... where these notes may discuss the pros and cons of different options.
14:58:44 <olaf> ... and this may even go into CR
14:58:53 <olaf> ... to provoke reactions
14:59:17 <olaf> ... Another constraint is that we are short on time.
14:59:41 <olaf> ... because we need to bring the other docs to CR
14:59:48 <TallTed> q+
15:00:04 <AndyS> ack Tallted
15:00:15 <olaf> TallTed: most important part is that we are not making decisions here
15:00:48 <olaf> ... we are doing research and get back to the WG with our findings
15:01:32 <olaf> AndyS: I can take another stab at the PR.
15:02:39 <olaf> ... to distribute the bits and pieces into the relevant pars of the spec
15:02:56 <olaf> ... needs to be coordinated with olaf's work
15:03:13 <olaf> olaf: I will be on vacation the next two weeks.
15:03:28 <AndyS> q?
15:03:33 <olaf> AndyS: We may as well cancel for the next few weeks.
15:04:03 <olaf> ... I will let pfps know what happened / what the idea is
15:04:42 <AndyS> zakim, end meeting
15:04:42 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been AndyS, gtw, Tpt, TallTed, olaf, james
15:04:44 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:04:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/25-rdf-star-minutes.html Zakim
15:04:51 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, AndyS; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:04:52 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdf-star
15:05:46 <AndyS> zakim, please leave us
15:06:02 <AndyS> rrsagent, please leave us
15:06:02 <RRSAgent> I see no action items