16:34:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
16:34:49 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/07/24-aria-irc
16:34:49 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:34:50 <Zakim> Meeting: ARIA WG
16:34:54 <jamesn> agendabot, find agenda
16:34:54 <agendabot> jamesn, OK. This may take a minute...
16:34:55 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/5a155237-d896-464b-9c5f-6dd1654293ae/20250724T130000/
16:34:55 <agendabot> clear agenda
16:34:55 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New PR Triage https://github.com/search?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+created%3A%3E%3D2025-07-10+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria&type=pullrequests
16:34:55 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New Issue Triage https://tinyurl.com/4r4cr9vf
16:34:58 <agendabot> agenda+ -> WPT Open PRs https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y
16:35:00 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates
16:35:03 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Add ariaNotify draft #2577 https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2577
16:35:06 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Update ia2/atk mappings for maxlength attr #2273 https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2273
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17:00:46 <aardrian> present+
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17:01:56 <filippo-zorzi> present+
17:02:10 <jamesn> agenda?
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17:03:33 <Francis_Storr> present+
17:03:52 <Rahim> present+
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17:03:57 <sarah> present+
17:04:24 <Daniel> present+
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17:07:43 <front-endian-jane> present+
17:09:24 <jcraig> scribe: jcraig
17:09:27 <giacomo-petri> present+
17:09:32 <jcraig> zakim, take up item 1
17:09:32 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- -> New PR Triage https://github.com/search?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+created%3A%3E%3D2025-07-10+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria&type=pullrequests -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:09:47 <jcraig> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2579
17:10:00 <jcraig> [editorial] Change back the id for AT definitions
17:10:22 <jcraig> pkra reviewed. will merge.
17:10:31 <jcraig> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2577
17:10:44 <jcraig> agenda-ed (sp?)
17:10:52 <Leo> Leo has joined #aria
17:11:01 <jcraig> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2576
17:11:04 <jcraig> table heuristics... draft
17:11:10 <StefanS> StefanS has joined #aria
17:11:11 <jcraig> zakim, take up next item
17:11:11 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- -> New Issue Triage https://tinyurl.com/4r4cr9vf -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:11:17 <StefanS> present+
17:11:30 <jcraig> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2578
17:11:36 <jcraig> aria-keyshortcuts: Do multiple shortcuts define a set of alternatives, or a single sequence?
17:11:55 <jcraig> ISO assignee??
17:12:18 <jcraig> jamesn: we don't have an example in the spec
17:12:23 <Jacques> Jacques has joined #aria
17:12:25 <jcraig> needs clarification
17:12:36 <StefanS> +q
17:13:03 <jcraig> front-endian-jane: i will take a look
17:13:11 <jcraig> zakim, next item
17:13:11 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, jcraig
17:13:25 <jamesn> ack StefanS
17:14:12 <jcraig> StefanS: if keyshortcuts overloaded.... how to recover... programmatically and in redundant speech?
17:14:39 <jcraig> and how do sighted users perceive the shortcuts?
17:14:45 <jcraig> q+
17:15:55 <Daniel> scribe+
17:15:56 <Daniel> jcraig: primary way to convey the shortcuts is via the title attribute according to Aaron
17:15:59 <Daniel> scribe-
17:16:35 <Daniel> scribe+
17:16:48 <Daniel> jcraig: I am saying ARIA is not the primary way to provide this information
17:16:50 <Daniel> scribe-
17:17:02 <jcraig> StefanS: so title attr based shortcuts should be conveyed to SRs?
17:17:15 <Matt_King> Matt_King has joined #aria
17:17:18 <Matt_King> present+
17:17:22 <jamesn> ack jcraig
17:17:28 <jcraig> zakim, next item
17:17:28 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- -> WPT Open PRs https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:17:56 <jcraig> https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/pull/53676
17:18:22 <jcraig> zakim, next item
17:18:22 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, jcraig
17:18:32 <jcraig> zakim, close this item
17:18:32 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
17:18:32 <Daniel> zakim, close item 3
17:18:33 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:18:33 <Zakim> 4. -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates [from agendabot]
17:18:33 <Zakim> agendum 3, -> WPT Open PRs https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y, closed
17:18:33 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:18:33 <Zakim> 4. -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates [from agendabot]
17:18:37 <jcraig> zakim, next item
17:18:37 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:18:56 <jcraig> jamesn: any topics to propose?
17:19:16 <jcraig> zakim, close this item
17:19:16 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
17:19:17 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:19:17 <Zakim> 5. -> Add ariaNotify draft #2577 https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2577 [from agendabot]
17:19:19 <jcraig> zakim, next item
17:19:19 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- -> Add ariaNotify draft #2577 https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2577 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:21:06 <jcraig> Jacques: would love to move this along. please review... v1 mostly based on keithamus' prior PR... completely polyfillable
17:21:26 <jcraig> jamesn: need reviewers from gecko and mozilla.
17:21:31 <jcraig> jcraig: me...
17:21:45 <jcraig> jamesn: and jcsteh for mozilla
17:22:09 <jcraig> front-endian-jane: i will also review
17:22:30 <jcraig> jamesn: please take a look at the mixin, core-aam, etc.
17:22:57 <jcraig> Jacques: and please reach out to me if you have questions or comments.
17:23:06 <jcraig> hoping to ship in Chrome soon
17:23:17 <jcraig> jamesn: behind a flag?
17:23:50 <jcraig> Jacques: Edge origin trial has shipped.. happy testers. wanted to move into main.
17:24:24 <jcraig> Leo: moving the spec along is the main blocker for shipping in Chrome
17:24:32 <jamesn> agenda?
17:24:33 <jcraig> zakim, next item
17:24:35 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- -> Update ia2/atk mappings for maxlength attr #2273 https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2273 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:25:27 <jcraig> sarah: PR moved from HTML-AAM. need implementation commitments.
17:26:19 <jcraig> I recall tentative commitment (or at least interest) from Microsoft, etc.
17:26:33 <jcraig> jamesn: any issues filed against the engines?
17:26:53 <jcraig> q+
17:27:02 <jcraig> ack me
17:27:36 <Daniel> scribe+
17:27:38 <Daniel> jcraig: Sounds interesting, not sure if we have AI for maxlength
17:27:47 <Daniel> Sarah: Object-like
17:28:07 <Daniel> jcraig: I am recalling more details now, I did filed a general VoiceOver bug
17:28:44 <Daniel> ... Webkit and VoiceOVer implementations can occur in parallel
17:28:56 <jcraig> jamesn: please file and link the engine issue trackers.
17:29:05 <Daniel> jamesn: We need at least links to the issues, one implementation, and another commitment. I don't think we could merge this until we have these
17:29:11 <jcraig> can't merge until at least one test implementation.
17:29:15 <Daniel> ... Sarah, could you file the issues?
17:29:50 <Daniel> sarah: James, do you want me to file an issue for webkit?
17:30:06 <Daniel> jcraig: yes. Put the links at the top
17:30:26 <Daniel> ... And say that it's a placeholder for an in-progress PR
17:30:54 <Daniel> ... Good for the tracker to have these links even if the PR is not ready yet
17:31:05 <Daniel> jamesn: There's not currently apple mapping proposed even
17:31:06 <Siri> Siri has joined #aria
17:31:10 <Daniel> ... Should we come up with something?
17:31:26 <Daniel> jcraig: Thought we did figure out a couple of years ago that there was enough there
17:31:51 <Daniel> sarah: I did do them separately. But you said it wouldn't be a direct mapping
17:32:00 <Daniel> jamesn: We should work out where we are before we go any further
17:32:08 <Daniel> jcraig: Added myself as a reviewer
17:32:29 <Daniel> jamesn: If it needs to come back to the meeting feel free to add agenda back to this. Taking it off for now
17:32:50 <Daniel> jcraig: Rahim, you may have interest on this as it's tight to the HTML mappings
17:33:23 <Daniel> jamesn: Val commented if we should add the mappings and then open relevant issues
17:33:41 <Daniel> jcraig: Let's get maxlength in html first before we add something new to ARIA
17:33:51 <Daniel> jamesn: Should we make sure we have all of the mappings?
17:34:23 <Daniel> Sarah: UIA has a PR open
17:34:37 <Daniel> jamesn: Can we link to that from this one?
17:34:41 <Daniel> Sarah: Yes, I can add that
17:34:46 <Rahim> q+
17:34:47 <jamesn> agenda?
17:35:27 <Daniel> jamesn: It may make sense to call out the mappings we are missing on separate issues
17:35:44 <Daniel> s/It may/Rahim, it may/
17:36:34 <Daniel> scribe-
17:36:45 <Daniel> Topic: TPAC registration now open
17:36:45 <Daniel> -> https://www.w3.org/2025/11/TPAC/ TPAC home page
17:36:45 <Daniel> scribe+
17:36:45 <Daniel> Early bird until 23 August, $370
17:36:46 <Daniel> scribe-
17:36:46 <jcraig> zakim, close this item
17:36:46 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, jcraig
17:36:56 <giacomo-petri> q+
17:37:31 <jcraig> ack r
17:37:33 <jcraig> ack g
17:37:35 <jcraig> zakim, close this item
17:37:35 <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
17:37:36 <Zakim> I see nothing remaining on the agenda
17:37:52 <jcraig> Topic: TPAC registration now open -> https://www.w3.org/2025/11/TPAC/ TPAC home page
17:38:01 <jcraig> q+ giacomo-petri
17:38:36 <jcraig> jamesn: earlybird reg is jsut for the first 4 people in the org
17:39:08 <Daniel> Topic: ACT feedback
17:39:22 <jcraig> giacomo-petri: in ACT today. we discussed aria-controls
17:39:46 <giacomo-petri> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2235
17:40:03 <jcraig> Empty or non-matching values for ID reference and ID reference list - Clarification on author responsibilities
17:40:18 <jamesn> q+
17:40:25 <jcraig> question was what about scrollbar which stil requires aira-controls
17:40:31 <jamesn> ack giacomo-petri
17:40:33 <jcraig> s/stil/still/
17:40:53 <Daniel> q?
17:41:03 <jcraig> should it still be required, or should we add an exception
17:41:30 <jcraig> jamesn: personal opinion drop requirement for aria-controls wherever possible
17:41:42 <jcraig> including in web components
17:41:57 <jcraig> (personal opinion not chair opinion)
17:42:18 <jcraig> ACT wishes to deprecate that rule... for scrollbar role.
17:42:39 <jcraig> s/ACT/giacomo-petri: ACT/
17:42:54 <jcraig> Matt_King: I though menu had to be hierarchical...
17:43:03 <jcraig> s/though/thought/
17:43:28 <jcraig> aaron had talked about the need to disambiguate the reverse relationship?
17:44:03 <jcraig> jamesn: that may be for menu, but doesn't apply to this scrollbar request for ACT
17:44:28 <jcraig> giacomo-petri: yes. unique role req for scrollbar in ACT...
17:45:55 <Daniel> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:45:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/24-aria-minutes.html Daniel
17:46:04 <jcraig> jamesn: not hearing a strong opinion it should still be required... giacomo-petri please create a PR?
17:46:04 <jcraig> giacomo-petri: will do
17:46:21 <Daniel> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:46:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/24-aria-minutes.html Daniel
17:46:29 <jcraig> RRSAgent: make minutes
17:46:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/24-aria-minutes.html jcraig
17:48:30 <jcraig> s/RRSAgent/rrsagent/g
17:49:20 <jcraig> rrsagent: make minutes
17:49:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/24-aria-minutes.html jcraig
17:50:13 <jcraig> s/rrsagent:/rrsagent,/gi
17:50:22 <jcraig> rrsagent, make minutes
17:50:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/24-aria-minutes.html jcraig
17:51:22 <jcraig> s/rrsagent: make minutes/END OF MEETING/
17:51:24 <jcraig> rrsagent, make minutes
17:51:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/24-aria-minutes.html jcraig
17:53:56 <jcraig> s/primary way to convey the shortcuts is via the title attribute according to Aaron/primary way to convey the shortcuts to sighted used is via a mainstream display technique (including, not limited to, the title attribute) according to original proposal/
17:54:52 <jcraig> s/I am saying ARIA is not the primary way to provide this information/I am saying aria-keyshortcuts is not intended as the primary way to provide this information to sighted viewers/
17:54:57 <jcraig> rrsagent, make minutes
17:54:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/24-aria-minutes.html jcraig
18:00:00 <Adam_Page> present+
18:00:03 <Adam_Page> rrsagent, make minutes
18:00:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/24-aria-minutes.html Adam_Page
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