12:57:24 RRSAgent has joined #matf 12:57:29 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/07/23-matf-irc 12:57:29 RRSAgent, make logs Public 12:57:30 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), JJ 12:57:30 Zakim, this is MATF 23 July 2025 12:57:30 got it, JJ 12:57:37 Meeting: MATF 23 July 2025 12:57:43 chair+ 12:57:49 agenda+ Page definition proposal 12:57:53 agenda+ Accessibility interface proposal 12:57:57 agenda+ 2.5.1 Pointer Gestures proposal 12:58:03 agenda+ 2.5.2 Pointer Cancellation proposal 12:58:09 agenda+ 2.5.3 Label in Name proposal 12:58:13 agenda+ Topics during summer break 13:00:07 regrets+ qbalsdon 13:00:15 regrets+ hdv 13:00:21 regrets+ Jamie 13:00:37 regrets+ Tanya 13:01:59 Joe_Humbert has joined #matf 13:02:00 RacheleD has joined #matf 13:02:08 present+ 13:02:14 present+ 13:05:56 Zakim, please propose a scribe 13:05:56 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Joe_Humbert 13:06:11 Tim has joined #matf 13:06:19 RobW has joined #matf 13:06:26 RacheleD has joined #matf 13:07:00 present+ 13:07:02 scribe: Tim 13:07:38 move to next agendum 13:07:38 agendum 1 -- Page definition proposal -- taken up [from JJ] 13:07:45 https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/110 13:08:13 Only note 1 has been updated based on feedback: 13:08:19 Interface elements that rely on the underlying page for context (such as dialogs, modals, navigation menus, and similar components) are typically considered part of that page rather than standalone pages. However, interface elements that significantly change the majority of screen content or function as independent navigational destinations may be 13:08:19 considered separate pages. 13:10:16 JJ: mosty the action was to tweake note 1. Conditions ho0w to deal with bottoms sheets etc. 13:10:52 q+ 13:10:57 ack Joe_Humbert 13:11:31 Carol has joined #MATF 13:11:39 present + 13:12:53 +1 to latest version 13:13:02 present+ 13:13:08 This is a nice improvement 13:14:11 move to next agendum 13:14:11 agendum 2 -- Accessibility interface proposal -- taken up [from JJ] 13:14:24 move to previous agendum 13:14:54 ACTION: Vote on page definition proposal on GitHub at https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/110#issuecomment-3107776138 13:15:12 github.com/w3c/matf/issues/220 13:15:36 Actions were: https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/220#issuecomment-3083003280 13:19:26 Interface used by assistive technology to obtain semantic information about content and interact with mobile applications. 13:19:26 Note 1 13:19:26 An accessibility interface allows assistive technology to access and interpret content even when the mobile application does not contain accessibility support. 13:19:26 Example 13:19:27 A mobile application exposes its content through the platform's accessibility API (such as UIAccessibility on iOS or AccessibilityService on Android). Screen readers, voice control systems, and switch access software can all use this interface to obtain information about the application's content, structure, and state, enabling users to 13:19:27 navigate and interact with the application through their preferred assistive technology. 13:19:27 Note 2 13:19:28 Operation of an application through a keyboard interface does not automatically qualify as operation through an accessibility interface, as keyboard interfaces focus on keystroke input while accessibility interfaces provide broader capabilities for assistive technology. 13:19:50 Change is: "assistive technology software" modified to "assistive technology" (plus included link to WCAG's definition) 13:20:42 Q: Why did we decide we needed a definition of an accessibility interface? 13:23:33 I agree with that reasoning, thank you. I thought it might help us decide where it goes 13:24:30 A: Mostly to address with potential gaps with 'keyboard interface' where certain types of assistive technologies are not covered in 2.1.1 and may not be covered in other success criteria 13:24:56 ACTION: Vote on accessibility interface definition proposal on GitHub at: https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/220#issuecomment-3107874287 13:25:08 move to previous agendum 13:25:11 move to next agendum 13:25:11 agendum 3 -- 2.5.1 Pointer Gestures proposal -- taken up [from JJ] 13:25:25 github.com/w3c/matf/issues/37 13:25:36 Proposal: https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/37#issuecomment-3107995965 13:25:43 All functionality that uses multipoint or path-based gestures for operation can be operated with a single pointer without a path-based gesture, unless a multipoint or path-based gesture is essential. 13:25:43 Note 1 13:25:43 This requirement applies to mobile applications that interpret pointer actions (i.e., this does not apply to actions that are required to operate the platform software, operating system, or assistive technology). Each layer is responsible for its own pointer actions only, not for those in an underlying layer. 13:25:43 Note 2 13:25:45 Examples of multipoint gestures include pinch-to-zoom, two-finger scrolling, split-tap (where one finger rests on screen while another taps), and multi-finger swipes. 13:25:45 Examples of path-based gestures include swiping through carousels where direction matters, sliders requiring specific directional movement, custom drawing gestures, and pull-to-refresh actions. 13:25:45 Multipoint and path-based gestures handled by underlying layers (platform software, operating system, or assistive technology) are exempt under Note 1. 13:25:46 Note 3 13:25:46 Platform accessibility features that allow gesture remapping (AssistiveTouch on iOS or Switch Access on Android) can satisfy this requirement by providing alternative input methods for complex gestures, eliminating the need for separate hardware solutions. 13:26:35 https://w3c.github.io/matf/#success-criterion-2-5-1-pointer-gestures 13:28:12 q+ 13:31:50 ack RobW 13:32:41 JJ: Summarizes feedback from the group and feedback on GitHub 13:33:20 RobW: Asking if its intended that platform vendors are exempt 13:33:24 JJ: Yes (at this point) 13:36:33 RobW: It sounds like the intention is to differentiate between specific gestures? 13:36:59 ACTION: Merge "gestures include swiping through carousels where direction matters, sliders requiring specific directional movement" into something that emphasizes "specific directional movement" 13:38:39 q+ 13:38:55 ack RobW 13:40:51 RobW: Agrees pull to refresh should be included as path-based gestures - but in both platforms it's built into a scroll view so it would be exempt 13:42:54 I can't think of any 13:43:12 JJ: Asking about more examples of multipoint gestures to include? 13:43:48 ACTION: Vote on 2.5.1 proposal at: https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/37#issuecomment-3107995965 13:43:59 move to next agendum 13:43:59 agendum 4 -- 2.5.2 Pointer Cancellation proposal -- taken up [from JJ] 13:44:12 https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/38 13:44:51 Proposed definition: https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/38#issuecomment-3108069035 13:44:58 For functionality that can be operated using a single pointer, at least one of the following is true: 13:44:58 No Down-Event 13:44:58 The down-event of the pointer is not used to execute any part of the function; 13:44:58 Abort or Undo 13:44:59 Completion of the function is on the up-event, and a mechanism is available to abort the function before completion or to undo the function after completion; 13:44:59 Up Reversal 13:44:59 The up-event reverses any outcome of the preceding down-event; 13:45:00 Essential 13:45:00 Completing the function on the down-event is essential. 13:45:00 Note 1 13:45:01 This requirement applies to mobile applications that interpret pointer actions (i.e., this does not apply to actions that are required to operate the platform software, operating system, or assistive technology). Each layer is responsible for its own pointer actions only, not for those in an underlying layer. 13:45:01 Note 2 13:45:01 Functions that emulate a keyboard or numeric keypad key press are considered essential. 13:45:02 Note 3 13:45:02 Examples of essential functionality include features required for meeting system requirements (such as waking a device from sleep, power management controls, and emergency functions). 13:45:32 https://w3c.github.io/matf/#success-criterion-2-5-2-pointer-cancellation 13:48:14 q+ 13:48:30 ack RobW 13:52:00 ACTION: How are we dealing with custom keyboards, are those exempt under note 2? 13:52:13 RobW: pointing out custom keyboards and potential caveats 13:53:17 zakim, move to next agendum 13:53:17 agendum 5 -- 2.5.3 Label in Name proposal -- taken up [from JJ] 13:53:50 Proposal has to be made, double check with Jamie on the state -> https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/39#issuecomment-2962999484 13:53:57 zakim, move to next agendum 13:53:57 agendum 5 was just opened, JJ 13:54:32 zakim, move to next agendum 13:54:32 agendum 6 -- Topics during summer break -- taken up [from JJ] 13:54:34 https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/977dfb97-bc7b-4aea-a13b-aa4a9a757398/ 13:54:48 Next meeting is: 13 August 2025 13:55:36 Project planning board: https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/147 13:58:21 Zakim, list participants 13:58:21 As of this point the attendees have been RacheleD, Joe_Humbert, Tim, RobW 13:58:29 present+ Carol 13:58:41 rrsagent, make minutes 13:58:42 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/23-matf-minutes.html JJ 13:59:05 rrsagent, bye 13:59:05 I see 5 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2025/07/23-matf-actions.rdf : 13:59:05 ACTION: Vote on page definition proposal on GitHub at https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/110#issuecomment-3107776138 [1] 13:59:05 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/07/23-matf-irc#T13-14-54 13:59:05 ACTION: Vote on accessibility interface definition proposal on GitHub at: https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/220#issuecomment-3107874287 [2] 13:59:05 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/07/23-matf-irc#T13-24-56 13:59:05 ACTION: Merge "gestures include swiping through carousels where direction matters, sliders requiring specific directional movement" into something that emphasizes "specific directional movement" [3] 13:59:05 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/07/23-matf-irc#T13-36-59 13:59:05 ACTION: Vote on 2.5.1 proposal at: https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/37#issuecomment-3107995965 [4] 13:59:05 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/07/23-matf-irc#T13-43-48 13:59:05 ACTION: How are we dealing with custom keyboards, are those exempt under note 2? [5] 13:59:05 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/07/23-matf-irc#T13-52-00 13:59:10 zakim, bye 13:59:10 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been RacheleD, Joe_Humbert, Tim, RobW, Carol 13:59:10 Zakim has left #matf