12:01:15 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #data-shapes
12:01:20 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/07/21-data-shapes-irc
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12:01:30 <bergos> present+
12:01:36 <ajnelson-nist> present+
12:01:38 <nicholascar> present+
12:01:49 <AndyS> present+
12:01:52 <HolgerK> present+
12:02:15 <TallTed> present+
12:02:39 <nicholascar> start the meeting
12:02:43 <DavidHabgood> DavidHabgood has joined #data-shapes
12:02:53 <nicholascar> zakim, start the meeting
12:02:53 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:02:55 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), nicholascar
12:03:05 <caribou> present+
12:03:16 <DavidHabgood> present+
12:03:25 <TallTed> meeting: Data Shapes Working Group
12:03:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/21-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
12:03:59 <nicholascar> topic: General runtime-configuration for tests
12:04:00 <nicholascar> agenda: https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/blob/agenda/admin/agenda-2025-07-21.md
12:04:02 <agendabot> clear agenda
12:04:02 <agendabot> agenda+ Discussion
12:04:02 <agendabot> agenda+ Process
12:04:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/21-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
12:05:02 <nicholascar> bergos: allow other levels such as Warning not to fail, by configuration
12:05:05 <TallTed> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/07/14-data-shapes-minutes.html
12:05:05 <TallTed> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/07/28-data-shapes-minutes.html
12:05:20 <nicholascar> bergos: ...for tests
12:05:57 <TallTed> chair: nicholascar
12:06:15 <nicholascar> ajnelson-nist: why are test conformance pass/fail only?
12:06:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/21-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
12:06:37 <AndyS> q?
12:07:11 <mgberg> mgberg has joined #data-shapes
12:07:19 <nicholascar> ajnelson-nist: which a validation report, conformance is true/false. Warning could be true or false. These needs to be defined
12:07:27 <nicholascar> q?
12:07:35 <AndyS> q+
12:07:38 <nicholascar> q?
12:08:07 <nicholascar> AndyS: confused as test outcomes contain details
12:08:26 <nicholascar> ajnelson-nist: confusion is pass/fail of overall validation report
12:09:29 <nicholascar> ajnelson-nist: we should say whether a test run was configured to allow/deny pass on Warning
12:10:10 <TallTed> TallTed has changed the topic to: Data Shapes Working Group, 2025-07-21 agenda: https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/blob/agenda/admin/agenda-2025-07-21.md
12:12:05 <nicholascar> AndyS: we can't go too far into tooling
12:14:28 <nicholascar> nicholascar: will we have a logic of sets of shapes for SHACL Rules
12:15:12 <nicholascar> AndyS: packages is (currently) out of scope
12:16:06 <AndyS> scribe+
12:16:30 <AndyS> AndyS: Currently, rules defined by "data" + "ruleset" => output
12:17:19 <AndyS> ... data is one graph (maybe virtual) and how it come into being is not defined by the standard
12:17:34 <AndyS> ... ruleset support "IMPORT"
12:17:38 <AndyS> scribe-
12:18:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/21-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
12:19:32 <AndyS> q+
12:19:44 <TallTed> i/General runtime-configuration/scribe: nicholascar /
12:19:45 <nicholascar> bergos: maybe not all runtime configs should contain this
12:19:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/21-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
12:20:40 <nicholascar> ack AndyS
12:20:44 <ajnelson-nist> q+
12:21:28 <Robert> q+
12:21:58 <ajnelson-nist> q-
12:22:36 <nicholascar> ack Robert
12:22:44 <AndyS> scribe+
12:22:50 <ajnelson-nist> q+ to talk about configuration-values
12:22:59 <AndyS> (Discussion of sh:conforms)
12:23:21 <bergos> q+
12:23:30 <AndyS> davidr: conforms to a summary so maybe not t/f any more
12:23:46 <Robert> q-
12:23:47 <nicholascar> ack bergos
12:24:28 <AndyS> nicholascar: that's a structured value to sh:conforms
12:24:51 <AndyS> bergos: one triple overall result is useful.
12:25:09 <AndyS> ... e.g. data pipeline
12:25:30 <AndyS> ... a validation report gets complicated
12:26:16 <AndyS> nicholascar: we do counting in the results
12:26:47 <AndyS> s/in the /of the/
12:27:55 <AndyS> bergos: example -- subclass warning ... custom results.
12:28:44 <AndyS> ... should still have a summary in the validation report
12:29:14 <AndyS> nicholascar: is this part of the "simple usage" story?
12:30:02 <AndyS> holgerk: there is also sh:result
12:30:38 <mgberg> q+
12:30:45 <AndyS> ... reports may be combined so leave the summary to the point of use, not in the report itself
12:31:23 <AndyS> nicholascar: provide example queries for report handling?
12:31:46 <nicholascar> ack mgberg
12:32:25 <AndyS> mgberg: option leave sh:conforms with the assumption it may differ due to external configuration
12:33:04 <mgberg> q-
12:33:52 <AndyS> nicholascar: back to original point of bergos - counts of each level?
12:34:03 <AndyS> ... for the WG tests
12:35:00 <AndyS> bergos: use case: running SHACL as a constraint adviser
12:35:43 <AndyS> ... I think sh:conforms is quite useful
12:37:04 <AndyS> nicholascar: we should not answer this matter right now- need a  GH issue for discussion
12:37:25 <AndyS> ... and list alternates to see the overall design
12:38:12 <ajnelson-nist> ack me
12:38:12 <Zakim> ajnelson-nist, you wanted to talk about configuration-values
12:38:15 <AndyS> ajnelson-nist: if we store a config dictionary - need to say where it goes and the vocabulary inc custom/tools specific settings.
12:38:29 <nicholascar> q?
12:38:30 <AndyS> nicholscar: I will create an issue
12:39:16 <bergos> pr: https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/pull/409
12:39:24 <AndyS> bergos: for the PR, can we make progress so as to not have it open too long.
12:39:36 <AndyS> s/pr: /pull request --/
12:41:00 <AndyS> nicholascar: status of subgroups
12:41:08 <AndyS> ... node expressions
12:41:19 <AndyS> ... is there a meeting time?
12:41:49 <AndyS> Robert: many people on holiday
12:42:08 <HolgerK> q+
12:42:08 <AndyS> ... will send out a doodle for a couple of weeks time
12:42:17 <nicholascar> ack HolgerK
12:42:44 <AndyS> HolgerK: made a first input to node expressions document.
12:42:56 <nicholascar> HolgerK: I made PR #432 as a big start on Node Expressions
12:43:49 <AndyS> ... changes being made
12:44:34 <AndyS> nicholascar: SHACL-SHACL
12:45:02 <AndyS> ajnelson-nist: 5 mins on Sh-SH and then profiles
12:45:28 <AndyS> ... influence of OWL profiles
12:45:59 <AndyS> ... other concepts include DX (data exchange WG)
12:46:28 <AndyS> ... how do we log SHACL-SHACL in the documents?
12:47:29 <AndyS> nicholascar: we did discuss an overview doc for SHACL.
12:47:51 <AndyS> ... we can show the relationship of governance aspects
12:49:28 <AndyS> ... both the parts that get fixed by publication and those that don't
12:53:05 <AndyS> nicholascar: SHACL-UI
12:53:18 <AndyS> ... start soon when people become available.
12:55:02 <AndyS> scribe-
12:55:13 <AndyS> zakim, end meeting
12:55:13 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been bergos, ajnelson-nist, nicholascar, AndyS, HolgerK, TallTed, caribou, DavidHabgood
12:55:15 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
12:55:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/21-data-shapes-minutes.html Zakim
12:55:22 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, AndyS; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
12:55:23 <Zakim> Zakim has left #data-shapes
12:55:28 <AndyS> RRSagent, please leave us
12:55:28 <RRSAgent> I see no action items