IRC log of wcag2ict on 2025-07-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:00:21 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:26 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/07/10-wcag2ict-irc
14:00:26 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:00:27 [Zakim]
Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
14:00:27 [maryjom]
zakim, clear agenda
14:00:27 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
14:00:30 [maryjom]
chair: Mary Jo Mueller
14:00:37 [maryjom]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:00:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html maryjom
14:00:46 [maryjom]
Zakim, please time speakers at 2 minutes
14:00:46 [Zakim]
ok, maryjom
14:00:50 [maryjom]
agenda+ Announcements
14:00:55 [maryjom]
agenda+ PR Proposal approvals
14:01:36 [maryjom]
regrets: Phil Day, Chris Loiselle
14:01:57 [maryjom]
present+
14:03:11 [bruce_bailey]
bruce_bailey has joined #wcag2ict
14:03:38 [Daniel]
present+
14:04:07 [loicmn]
loicmn has joined #wcag2ict
14:04:13 [loicmn]
present+
14:04:17 [bruce_bailey]
scribe+
14:04:34 [bruce_bailey]
zakim, take up item
14:04:34 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'take up item', bruce_bailey
14:04:42 [bruce_bailey]
zakim, pickup next
14:04:42 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'pickup next', bruce_bailey
14:04:51 [bruce_bailey]
zakim, take up next
14:04:51 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Announcements -- taken up [from maryjom]
14:05:29 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: Nothing dramatic, but I am continuing to make edits to PR...
14:05:57 [bruce_bailey]
...we are continuing to focus on thing which get us to a set for a publication...
14:06:08 [GreggVan]
q+
14:06:13 [GreggVan]
present+
14:06:23 [bruce_bailey]
...this includes a few things in addition the the EN 301 549 items
14:06:40 [bruce_bailey]
...I will continue to post each week.
14:06:46 [bruce_bailey]
zakim, regrets ?
14:06:46 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, bruce_bailey.
14:06:48 [bruce_bailey]
zakim, regrets?
14:06:48 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, bruce_bailey.
14:07:19 [Mike_Pluke]
Mike_Pluke has joined #wcag2ict
14:07:27 [bruce_bailey]
GreggVan: EN 301 549 had recent marathon session, clearing 150 comments, about a hundred more.
14:07:35 [Mike_Pluke]
presnt+
14:07:41 [Mike_Pluke]
present+
14:08:09 [bruce_bailey]
...possibility that some "consented" items might need to be re-reviewed due to 24 hour turnover...
14:08:34 [bruce_bailey]
...there is still open issues through the end of the week. I will share spread sheet.
14:08:54 [bruce_bailey]
Daniel: Please also send me.
14:09:07 [Mike_Pluke]
The link I used to get into Zoom no longer seems to work!!
14:09:21 [bruce_bailey]
GreggVan: EN 301 will have publication for JTB conference.
14:13:07 [bruce_bailey]
...ping me if anyone can't wait through the weekend.
14:13:07 [bruce_bailey]
...we have them all in a table, and your comment reminds me that we are only using color to flag items still under reviews.
14:13:07 [loicmn]
Mike_Pluke, te link is in the "new" WCAG2ICT calendar: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/89811211861?pwd=bUdtNkV6OC81bkMwbTloTU0wdnpldz09
14:13:07 [bruce_bailey]
GreggVan: Yellow cells are the priority, so we need to make that easier to spot for screen reader users.
14:13:07 [bruce_bailey]
...they are interested in our work.
14:13:07 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: Thanks, and in particular we want to check on anything WCAG2ICT which is not exactly verbatime
14:13:07 [bruce_bailey]
s/JTB conference/JTB meeting/
14:13:07 [bruce_bailey]
zakim, next item
14:13:07 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, bruce_bailey
14:13:07 [bruce_bailey]
q?
14:13:07 [maryjom]
ack GreggVan
14:13:46 [bruce_bailey]
zakim, next item
14:13:46 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- PR Proposal approvals -- taken up [from maryjom]
14:13:46 [maryjom]
TOPIC: Editorial changes – covering Issues 699, 636, and for Issue 699: Changed notes would benefit from parenthetical "(Modifed)"
14:14:06 [maryjom]
Link to issue 699: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/699 resolved using PR 701: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/701
14:14:16 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: I know these are editorial and only editorial but helpful to get these in front of EN 301 359 et al...
14:15:05 [bruce_bailey]
...We have add "replaced" to highlight changes where wording change was a little more significant.
14:15:18 [bruce_bailey]
The term used only a couple of places.
14:15:44 [maryjom]
POLL: Do you agree with using “Replaced” in these 2 cases?
14:15:51 [loicmn]
+1
14:16:18 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: These are where the rewriting was a bit more than modified (the word we looked at previously).
14:16:33 [bruce_bailey]
q+
14:16:40 [maryjom]
ack bruce_bailey
14:17:07 [maryjom]
SC that changed is 4.1.2 and definition of "accessibility supported"
14:17:31 [Mike_Pluke]
+1
14:18:06 [maryjom]
Link to issue 713: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/713 which is resolved by PR 722: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/722
14:18:14 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: 2nd of three editorials...
14:22:44 [bruce_bailey]
...Issue 713 is several more places distinguish "non-web document and software" to "non-web documents" AND "non-web software"
14:22:44 [bruce_bailey]
...We had had looked at several of these before in conjunction with our review on EN 302 549...
14:22:44 [bruce_bailey]
...it made sense to do this in other places places.
14:22:44 [bruce_bailey]
[screen sharing code to show two new additional CSS classes]
14:22:44 [bruce_bailey]
[screen sharing code to show rendering example of new classes]
14:22:53 [maryjom]
Built document with the changes: https://deploy-preview-722--wcag2ict.netlify.app/
14:23:26 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: Formatting really helps with spotting changes, especially when scrolling through document.
14:24:12 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: I had caught one more and Daniel caught three more.
14:25:21 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: What are peoples' first impressions? Versus previous approach where separated paragraphs were in series.
14:25:38 [bruce_bailey]
GreggVan: Yes, easier to read, makes sense.
14:25:42 [maryjom]
Link to issue 636: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/636 resolved by PR 716: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/716
14:26:49 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: This PR picks up the four instances which where non-web document prose and notes are separated from non-web software.
14:27:05 [bruce_bailey]
..previously we had notes on both.
14:27:47 [bruce_bailey]
q+ to ask if this is PR is *all* of them or just four *more* which we didn't discuss specifically?
14:28:08 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: so we have one for document and one for software
14:28:11 [bruce_bailey]
ack me
14:28:11 [Zakim]
bruce_bailey, you wanted to ask if this is PR is *all* of them or just four *more* which we didn't discuss specifically?
14:28:31 [bruce_bailey]
Bruce: Is PR is *all* of them or just four *more* which we didn't discuss specifically?
14:30:26 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: Yes, this discussion started with page titled and this PR applies elsewhere.
14:30:26 [bruce_bailey]
... Could also use the other alternative PR treatment for page titled
14:31:58 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: Some of these are from 2013, so they have been combined for a while.
14:31:58 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: Are people okay with this treatment? Could continue 2013 approach, could do more extensive word substation.
14:32:04 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: Should we format with this treatment?
14:32:21 [bruce_bailey]
bruce: This is a good improvement, thank you.
14:32:40 [loicmn]
+1 to the proposed change
14:32:46 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: These are just for the "sets of" SC.
14:32:59 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: Editors choice?
14:33:20 [bruce_bailey]
bruce_bailey: Not editors choice, please do this!
14:33:55 [bruce_bailey]
GreggVan: We are doing this why? Seems like a lot of change when its only editorial.
14:34:35 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: For example "sets of document" common but "set of software" is not.
14:36:39 [bruce_bailey]
GreggVan: I see where we say "applied as written (in WCAG2)" but we are adding notes in several places, so that's not quite right.
14:36:39 [bruce_bailey]
GreggVan: It's hard to see where the changes is. Maybe add a note about why split notes?
14:36:57 [bruce_bailey]
...It takes a lot thinking to spot why two separate notes when they are so close for the "set of pages" distinction.
14:37:11 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: We coud bold the session?
14:37:46 [bruce_bailey]
GreggVan: No, bold seems like importance distinction, not trivial minor change.
14:38:16 [maryjom]
Need to move "(Sets of software that meet this definition appear to be extremely rare.)" to the end of notes that use them (Note 1) in the 4 sc.
14:40:34 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: Purely editorial, but I thought of another way to do this by having not of the change elsewhere.
14:41:34 [bruce_bailey]
GreggVan: Could have a line (repeated in the four place) characterize why the split in this case.
14:41:50 [bruce_bailey]
...otherwise, people have to figure it out themselves.
14:42:12 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: Maybe this could be a software-only note.
14:42:18 [bruce_bailey]
q+
14:42:26 [bruce_bailey]
ack me
14:43:23 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: Page Titled is *not* in this set, but we have that PR still open...
14:44:03 [bruce_bailey]
...I have been prioritizing other places where EN 301 549 can make use of our feedback.
14:44:14 [maryjom]
DRAFT RESOLUTION: Merge editorial PRs 701 and 722 into the editor’s draft, as-is
14:44:31 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: I am not going to merge 716 since that needs a little more work.
14:44:37 [loicmn]
+1
14:44:58 [Mike_Pluke]
+1
14:45:14 [GreggVan]
+1
14:45:17 [maryjom]
RESOLUTION: Merge editorial PRs 701 and 722 into the editor’s draft, as-is
14:45:51 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: 716 is an easy fix I think, so plan to return to that next week.
14:46:02 [maryjom]
TOPIC: Issue 605 - 4.1.2 Name, Role, Value: clarify that non-web software does not have a user agent
14:46:11 [maryjom]
•Link to issue 605: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/605
14:46:21 [maryjom]
Link to Gregg’s comment expressing the concern: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/605#issuecomment-3028826783
14:46:38 [maryjom]
This resulted in PR 721: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/721
14:47:02 [GreggVan]
q+
14:47:07 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: GreggVan reopened for something which relates to other uses of "underlying"
14:47:19 [maryjom]
ack GreggVan
14:47:21 [bruce_bailey]
[screen sharing]
14:48:15 [Mike_Pluke]
Q+
14:48:15 [bruce_bailey]
GreggVan: We had debated about underlying software versus platform software (which is a defined term) where "underlying" was not defined as a term...
14:49:28 [bruce_bailey]
...So this does seem to address the issue with "underlying" versus "underlying platform software" raising question if there is a meaningful difference.
14:49:58 [bruce_bailey]
... Okay, I see it implies three terms when there is only one.
14:50:41 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: Conflating this is that inserts have dotted underling and that new word is right before defined term.
14:51:15 [bruce_bailey]
GreggVan: Maybe *not* bold "underlying"? Really hard for low vision, and I would not have notice had you not called this out.
14:52:02 [Mike_Pluke]
Q-
14:52:05 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: I think that will help. I was even more confusable with prevision release.
14:53:06 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: I will make a task for myself to do a pass with that on this instances and elsewhere
14:53:56 [bruce_bailey]
q+ to mention my GitHub comment to not have "the" in front of underlying someplace.
14:54:03 [maryjom]
ack bruce_bailey
14:54:03 [Zakim]
bruce_bailey, you wanted to mention my GitHub comment to not have "the" in front of underlying someplace.
14:54:55 [bruce_bailey]
q+ to mention my GitHub comment to not have "the" in front of underlying someplace.
14:55:20 [maryjom]
Need to get rid of bold on "and accessibility features of the" in the 4.1.2 text
14:55:39 [bruce_bailey]
Bruce: Please also see my GitHub comment to not have "the" in front of every use of "underlying".
14:57:00 [maryjom]
s/"and accessibility features of the"/"and accessibility features of the underlying"/
14:57:01 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom asks Gregg if removing bold (in PR) is addressing the issue he raised?
14:57:07 [GreggVan]
+1
14:57:53 [maryjom]
DRAFT RESOLUTION: For SC 4.1.2 - Make bolding changes noted above to PR 721 and then merge.
14:58:01 [loicmn]
+1
14:58:11 [Mike_Pluke]
+1
14:58:17 [GreggVan]
+1
14:58:22 [bruce_bailey]
present+
14:58:39 [bruce_bailey]
RRSagent, draft minutes
14:58:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html bruce_bailey
14:58:47 [maryjom]
RESOLUTION: For SC 4.1.2 - Make bolding changes noted above to PR 721 and then merge.
14:59:41 [maryjom]
TOPIC: Issue 612 - 2.5.7 Dragging Movements - "underlying platform software" vs "user agent or platform software"
14:59:41 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: PR 612 is similar.
15:00:56 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: I think uses of "the platform software" are okay.
15:01:50 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom" Use "AT and other platform software" or "AT and platform software"?
15:02:00 [bruce_bailey]
GreggVan: Keep "other"
15:02:32 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: I didn't get through all I wanted, please see work for the week and give thumbs up on few left.
15:03:03 [maryjom]
Please be sure this week to look at: 691 (in PR 718), 704, and 706 (in PR 714)
15:03:04 [bruce_bailey]
... again these are meant to be editorial.
15:03:49 [bruce_bailey]
maryjom: Other PRs do need comment so we can make choices...
15:04:01 [bruce_bailey]
... Text Resize will need signification discussion.
15:04:34 [loicmn]
loicmn has left #wcag2ict
15:05:13 [Daniel]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:05:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html Daniel
15:05:33 [maryjom]
zakim, end meeting
15:05:33 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been maryjom, Daniel, loicmn, GreggVan, Mike_Pluke, bruce_bailey
15:05:35 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
15:05:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html Zakim
15:05:42 [Zakim]
I am happy to have been of service, maryjom; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
15:05:43 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #wcag2ict
15:05:50 [maryjom]
rrsagent, bye
15:05:50 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items