14:00:21 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:26 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/07/10-wcag2ict-irc
14:00:26 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:00:27 <Zakim> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
14:00:27 <maryjom> zakim, clear agenda
14:00:27 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:00:30 <maryjom> chair:  Mary Jo Mueller
14:00:37 <maryjom> rrsagent, make minutes
14:00:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html maryjom
14:00:46 <maryjom> Zakim, please time speakers at 2 minutes
14:00:46 <Zakim> ok, maryjom
14:00:50 <maryjom> agenda+ Announcements
14:00:55 <maryjom> agenda+ PR Proposal approvals
14:01:36 <maryjom> regrets: Phil Day, Chris Loiselle
14:01:57 <maryjom> present+
14:03:11 <bruce_bailey> bruce_bailey has joined #wcag2ict
14:03:38 <Daniel> present+
14:04:07 <loicmn> loicmn has joined #wcag2ict
14:04:13 <loicmn> present+
14:04:17 <bruce_bailey> scribe+
14:04:34 <bruce_bailey> zakim, take up item
14:04:34 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up item', bruce_bailey
14:04:42 <bruce_bailey> zakim, pickup next
14:04:42 <Zakim> I don't understand 'pickup next', bruce_bailey
14:04:51 <bruce_bailey> zakim, take up next
14:04:51 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Announcements -- taken up [from maryjom]
14:05:29 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  Nothing dramatic, but I am continuing to make edits to PR...
14:05:57 <bruce_bailey> ...we are continuing to focus on thing which get us to a set for a publication...
14:06:08 <GreggVan> q+
14:06:13 <GreggVan> present+
14:06:23 <bruce_bailey> ...this includes a few things in addition the the EN 301 549 items
14:06:40 <bruce_bailey> ...I will continue to post each week.
14:06:46 <bruce_bailey> zakim, regrets ?
14:06:46 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, bruce_bailey.
14:06:48 <bruce_bailey> zakim, regrets?
14:06:48 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, bruce_bailey.
14:07:19 <Mike_Pluke> Mike_Pluke has joined #wcag2ict
14:07:27 <bruce_bailey> GreggVan:  EN 301 549 had recent marathon session, clearing 150 comments, about a hundred more.
14:07:35 <Mike_Pluke> presnt+
14:07:41 <Mike_Pluke> present+
14:08:09 <bruce_bailey> ...possibility that some "consented" items might need to be re-reviewed due to 24 hour turnover...
14:08:34 <bruce_bailey> ...there is still open issues through the end of the week.  I will share spread sheet.
14:08:54 <bruce_bailey> Daniel:  Please also send me.
14:09:07 <Mike_Pluke> The link I used to get into Zoom no longer seems to work!!
14:09:21 <bruce_bailey> GreggVan:  EN 301 will have publication for JTB conference.
14:13:07 <bruce_bailey> ...ping me if anyone can't wait through the weekend.
14:13:07 <bruce_bailey> ...we have them all in a table, and your comment reminds me that we are only using color to flag items still under reviews.
14:13:07 <loicmn> Mike_Pluke, te link is in the "new" WCAG2ICT calendar: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/89811211861?pwd=bUdtNkV6OC81bkMwbTloTU0wdnpldz09
14:13:07 <bruce_bailey> GreggVan:  Yellow cells are the priority, so we need to make that easier to spot for screen reader users.
14:13:07 <bruce_bailey> ...they are interested in our work.
14:13:07 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  Thanks, and in particular we want to check on anything WCAG2ICT which is not exactly verbatime
14:13:07 <bruce_bailey> s/JTB conference/JTB meeting/
14:13:07 <bruce_bailey> zakim, next item
14:13:07 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, bruce_bailey
14:13:07 <bruce_bailey> q?
14:13:07 <maryjom> ack GreggVan
14:13:46 <bruce_bailey> zakim, next item
14:13:46 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- PR Proposal approvals -- taken up [from maryjom]
14:13:46 <maryjom> TOPIC: Editorial changes – covering Issues 699, 636, and for Issue 699: Changed notes would benefit from parenthetical "(Modifed)"
14:14:06 <maryjom> Link to issue 699: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/699  resolved using PR 701: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/701
14:14:16 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  I know these are editorial and only editorial but helpful to get these in front of EN 301 359 et al...
14:15:05 <bruce_bailey> ...We have add "replaced" to highlight changes where wording change was a little more significant.
14:15:18 <bruce_bailey> The term used only a couple of places.
14:15:44 <maryjom> POLL: Do you agree with using “Replaced” in these 2 cases?
14:15:51 <loicmn> +1
14:16:18 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  These are where the rewriting was a bit more than modified (the word we looked at previously).
14:16:33 <bruce_bailey> q+
14:16:40 <maryjom> ack bruce_bailey
14:17:07 <maryjom> SC that changed is 4.1.2 and definition of "accessibility supported"
14:17:31 <Mike_Pluke> +1
14:18:06 <maryjom> Link to issue 713: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/713 which is resolved by PR 722: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/722
14:18:14 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  2nd of three editorials...
14:22:44 <bruce_bailey> ...Issue 713 is several more places distinguish "non-web document and software" to "non-web documents" AND "non-web software"
14:22:44 <bruce_bailey> ...We had had looked at several of these before in conjunction with our review on EN 302 549...
14:22:44 <bruce_bailey> ...it made sense to do this in other places places.
14:22:44 <bruce_bailey> [screen sharing code to show two new additional CSS classes]
14:22:44 <bruce_bailey> [screen sharing code to show rendering example of new classes]
14:22:53 <maryjom> Built document with the changes: https://deploy-preview-722--wcag2ict.netlify.app/
14:23:26 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  Formatting really helps with spotting changes, especially when scrolling through document.
14:24:12 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  I had caught one more and Daniel caught three more.
14:25:21 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  What are peoples' first impressions?  Versus previous approach where separated paragraphs were in series.
14:25:38 <bruce_bailey> GreggVan:  Yes, easier to read, makes sense.
14:25:42 <maryjom> Link to issue 636: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/636 resolved by PR 716: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/716
14:26:49 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  This PR picks up the four instances which where non-web document prose and notes are separated from non-web software.
14:27:05 <bruce_bailey> ..previously we had notes on both.
14:27:47 <bruce_bailey> q+ to ask if this is PR is *all* of them or just four *more* which we didn't discuss specifically?
14:28:08 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  so we have one for document and one for software
14:28:11 <bruce_bailey> ack me
14:28:11 <Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to ask if this is PR is *all* of them or just four *more* which we didn't discuss specifically?
14:28:31 <bruce_bailey> Bruce:  Is PR is *all* of them or just four *more* which we didn't discuss specifically?
14:30:26 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  Yes, this discussion started with page titled and this PR applies elsewhere.
14:30:26 <bruce_bailey> ... Could also use the other alternative PR treatment for page titled
14:31:58 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  Some of these are from 2013, so they have been combined for a while.
14:31:58 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  Are people okay with this treatment?  Could continue 2013 approach, could do more extensive word substation.
14:32:04 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  Should we format with this treatment?
14:32:21 <bruce_bailey> bruce:  This is a good improvement, thank you.
14:32:40 <loicmn> +1 to the proposed change
14:32:46 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  These are just for the "sets of" SC.
14:32:59 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  Editors choice?
14:33:20 <bruce_bailey> bruce_bailey:  Not editors choice, please do this!
14:33:55 <bruce_bailey> GreggVan:  We are doing this why?  Seems like a lot of change when its only editorial.
14:34:35 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  For example "sets of document" common but "set of software" is not.
14:36:39 <bruce_bailey> GreggVan:  I see where we say "applied as written (in WCAG2)" but we are adding notes in several places, so that's not quite right.
14:36:39 <bruce_bailey> GreggVan:  It's hard to see where the changes is.  Maybe add a note about why split notes?
14:36:57 <bruce_bailey> ...It takes a lot thinking to spot why two separate notes when they are so close for the "set of pages" distinction.
14:37:11 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  We coud bold the session?
14:37:46 <bruce_bailey> GreggVan:  No, bold seems like importance distinction, not trivial minor change.
14:38:16 <maryjom> Need to move "(Sets of software that meet this definition appear to be extremely rare.)"  to the end of notes that use them (Note 1) in the 4 sc.
14:40:34 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  Purely editorial, but I thought of another way to do this by having not of the change elsewhere.
14:41:34 <bruce_bailey> GreggVan:  Could have a line (repeated in the four place) characterize why the split in this case.
14:41:50 <bruce_bailey> ...otherwise, people have to figure it out themselves.
14:42:12 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  Maybe this could be a software-only note.
14:42:18 <bruce_bailey> q+
14:42:26 <bruce_bailey> ack me
14:43:23 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  Page Titled is *not* in this set, but we have that PR still open...
14:44:03 <bruce_bailey> ...I have been prioritizing other places where EN 301 549 can make use of our feedback.
14:44:14 <maryjom> DRAFT RESOLUTION: Merge editorial PRs 701 and 722 into the editor’s draft, as-is
14:44:31 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  I am not going to merge 716 since that needs a little more work.
14:44:37 <loicmn> +1
14:44:58 <Mike_Pluke> +1
14:45:14 <GreggVan> +1
14:45:17 <maryjom> RESOLUTION: Merge editorial PRs 701 and 722 into the editor’s draft, as-is
14:45:51 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  716 is an easy fix I think, so plan to return to that next week.
14:46:02 <maryjom> TOPIC: Issue 605 - 4.1.2 Name, Role, Value: clarify that non-web software does not have a user agent
14:46:11 <maryjom> •	Link to issue 605: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/605
14:46:21 <maryjom> Link to Gregg’s comment expressing the concern: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/605#issuecomment-3028826783
14:46:38 <maryjom> This resulted in PR 721: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/721
14:47:02 <GreggVan> q+
14:47:07 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  GreggVan reopened for something which relates to other uses of "underlying"
14:47:19 <maryjom> ack GreggVan
14:47:21 <bruce_bailey> [screen sharing]
14:48:15 <Mike_Pluke> Q+
14:48:15 <bruce_bailey> GreggVan:  We had debated about underlying software versus platform software (which is a defined term) where "underlying" was not defined as a term...
14:49:28 <bruce_bailey> ...So this does seem to address the issue with "underlying" versus "underlying platform software" raising question if there is a meaningful difference.
14:49:58 <bruce_bailey> ... Okay, I see it implies three terms when there is only one.
14:50:41 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  Conflating this is that inserts have dotted underling and that new word is right before defined term.
14:51:15 <bruce_bailey> GreggVan:  Maybe *not* bold "underlying"?  Really hard for low vision, and I would not have notice had you not called this out.
14:52:02 <Mike_Pluke> Q-
14:52:05 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  I think that will help.  I was even more confusable with prevision release.
14:53:06 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  I will make a task for myself to do a pass with that on this instances and elsewhere
14:53:56 <bruce_bailey> q+ to mention my GitHub comment to not have "the" in front of underlying someplace.
14:54:03 <maryjom> ack bruce_bailey
14:54:03 <Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to mention my GitHub comment to not have "the" in front of underlying someplace.
14:54:55 <bruce_bailey> q+ to mention my GitHub comment to not have "the" in front of underlying someplace.
14:55:20 <maryjom> Need to get rid of bold on "and accessibility features of the" in the 4.1.2 text
14:55:39 <bruce_bailey> Bruce:  Please also see my GitHub comment to not have "the" in front of every use of "underlying".
14:57:00 <maryjom> s/"and accessibility features of the"/"and accessibility features of the underlying"/
14:57:01 <bruce_bailey> maryjom asks Gregg if removing bold (in PR) is addressing the issue he raised?
14:57:07 <GreggVan> +1
14:57:53 <maryjom> DRAFT RESOLUTION: For SC 4.1.2 - Make bolding changes noted above to PR 721 and then merge.
14:58:01 <loicmn> +1
14:58:11 <Mike_Pluke> +1
14:58:17 <GreggVan> +1
14:58:22 <bruce_bailey> present+
14:58:39 <bruce_bailey> RRSagent, draft minutes
14:58:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html bruce_bailey
14:58:47 <maryjom> RESOLUTION: For SC 4.1.2 - Make bolding changes noted above to PR 721 and then merge.
14:59:41 <maryjom> TOPIC: Issue 612 - 2.5.7 Dragging Movements - "underlying platform software" vs "user agent or platform software"
14:59:41 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  PR 612 is similar.
15:00:56 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  I think uses of  "the platform software" are okay.
15:01:50 <bruce_bailey> maryjom"  Use "AT and other platform software" or "AT and platform software"?
15:02:00 <bruce_bailey> GreggVan:  Keep "other"
15:02:32 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  I didn't get through all I wanted, please see work for the week and give thumbs up on few left.
15:03:03 <maryjom> Please be sure this week to look at: 691 (in PR 718), 704, and 706 (in PR 714)
15:03:04 <bruce_bailey> ... again these are meant to be editorial.
15:03:49 <bruce_bailey> maryjom:  Other PRs do need comment so we can make choices...
15:04:01 <bruce_bailey> ... Text Resize will need signification discussion.
15:04:34 <loicmn> loicmn has left #wcag2ict
15:05:13 <Daniel> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:05:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html Daniel
15:05:33 <maryjom> zakim, end meeting
15:05:33 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been maryjom, Daniel, loicmn, GreggVan, Mike_Pluke, bruce_bailey
15:05:35 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
15:05:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html Zakim
15:05:42 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, maryjom; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:05:43 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag2ict
15:05:50 <maryjom> rrsagent, bye
15:05:50 <RRSAgent> I see no action items