13:55:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #adapt
13:55:47 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/07/08-adapt-irc
13:55:47 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:55:48 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), matatk
13:55:53 <matatk> meeting: Adapt Weekly Telecon
13:55:56 <matatk> chair: Lionel
13:56:03 <matatk> present+
13:56:10 <matatk> agenda+ Announcements
13:56:13 <matatk> agenda+ Symbols
13:56:19 <matatk> agenda+ Well-known destinations
13:56:24 <matatk> agenda+ AOB
13:56:25 <janina> janina has joined #adapt
13:56:29 <matatk> agenda+ Be done
13:56:30 <janina> zakim, who's here?
13:56:30 <Zakim> Present: matatk
13:56:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see janina, RRSAgent, Zakim, matatk, gb, jcraig, hadleybeeman, Roy_Ruoxi
13:56:40 <janina> agenda?
14:04:13 <Russell> Russell has joined #adapt
14:05:07 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #Adapt
14:05:09 <Abhinav> Abhinav has joined #adapt
14:05:18 <Abhinav> present+
14:05:45 <Russell> present+
14:05:48 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:05:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/08-adapt-minutes.html matatk
14:06:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
14:06:25 <janina> present+
14:06:35 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda?
14:06:37 <janina> scribe+
14:06:42 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:06:42 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Announcements -- taken up [from matatk]
14:06:48 <Lionel_Wolberger> scribe+
14:06:58 <Annalu> Annalu has joined #adapt
14:07:11 <Annalu> present +
14:11:50 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:11:50 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Symbols -- taken up [from matatk]
14:13:03 <matatk> Symbols issues: https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20label%3ASymbols
14:14:18 <Annalu> I still need to add use cases - hope to do this 3rd & 4th week of July while I am away.
14:17:41 <matatk> Tracking issue for Jeffrey's ruby proposal: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-review/issues/234
14:17:43 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-review/issues/234 -> Issue 234 Add a way to indicate the semantics of ruby annotations (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html-ruby-extensions]
14:19:30 <janina> q+ to understand how a new attirb solves the ruby problem
14:19:50 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: No further action needed currently
14:20:59 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: I am trying to understand this scenario. When a browser has not been updated to this new spec, the browser will render this ruby markup
14:21:06 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... is that an acceptable outcome?
14:21:59 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: Browsers are evergreen today and expected to be uptodate
14:22:34 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... for (rarer) embedded systems, or legacy systems, they are likely not being used to access new web pages that will feature this new use of Ruby
14:22:47 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: +1 to Matt's response
14:23:34 <matatk> scribe+
14:23:49 <matatk> janina: I am happy if implementers are happy, but would like this to be explicitly acknowledged.
14:23:55 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:23:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/08-adapt-minutes.html matatk
14:24:34 <janina> q?
14:24:37 <janina> ack ja
14:24:37 <Zakim> janina, you wanted to understand how a new attirb solves the ruby problem
14:24:40 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack janina
14:24:45 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: I'd like to take your objection in the context of risk, and think the risk is low that this will impact users. There are older/embedded scenarios, but probably not going to be impacted.
14:24:54 <Lionel_Wolberger> rrsagent, make minutes
14:24:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/08-adapt-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
14:25:10 <matatk> Russell: If the symbols are being specified, and not added automatically, i.e. the web page is created with symbols in it...
14:25:57 <matatk> ... then it really would trash the web page. So wanted to openly state that. Maybe everyone else had that clear in their mind. An old page doesn't get symbols; you have to explicitly add symbols there.
14:26:13 <matatk> janina: I'm imagining someone using an AI agent to do this, but they'd expect symbols.
14:26:31 <matatk> Russell: So we are not trashing pages where the author didn't have an intention for symbols to be there.
14:26:54 <matatk> janina: Are users upset to see rubies in mixed-language pages?
14:27:10 <matatk> Russell: The intent of ruby is just within CJK, it's a pronunciation guide.
14:27:34 <matatk> Russell: Is ruby used outside of Japanese?
14:27:47 <matatk> Russell: I found not many examples, and they were all Japanese.
14:28:17 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: I am satisfied with the answers here, but we should give transparency and share these risks and mitigations.
14:28:18 <matatk> janina: I'm satisfied with what I'm hearing in this call, but think it's wise for us to explicitly clear this up with browsers and W3C management at TPAC.
14:28:44 <matatk> Russell: I agree that we don't want to be putting symbols on pages where they're not expected.
14:32:09 <Annalu> bye
14:34:56 <Russell> present-
14:35:13 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:35:13 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Well-known destinations -- taken up [from matatk]
14:36:22 <matatk> WKD issues that aren't proposed destinations: https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20label%3A%22Well-known%20destinations%22%20-label%3Aproposed-destination
14:53:52 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: We closed 5 proposed destinations; we expect to further reduce the list in future
14:54:18 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: We will need to speak with COGA.
14:54:31 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... they have an important concern about the differing needs of different people
14:54:44 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... the type of help on the help page is significant to them
14:55:27 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: I suspect web content cannot support such sharp, clean divisions
14:56:03 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... more helpful may be, how do you exit from a wrong turn (many people do not know the 'back' command)
14:56:13 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... WKD can help people return from such wrong turns
14:57:40 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, end meeting
14:57:40 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been matatk, Abhinav, Russell, Lionel_Wolberger, janina
14:57:42 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:57:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/08-adapt-minutes.html Zakim
14:57:50 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Lionel_Wolberger; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
14:57:50 <Zakim> Zakim has left #adapt