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11:59:56 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/07/07-data-shapes-irc
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12:01:35 <caribou> zakim, start meeting
12:01:35 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:01:37 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), caribou
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12:01:54 <bergos> present+
12:01:58 <ajnelson-nist> present+
12:02:02 <caribou> meeting: Data Shapes WG teleconference - Jul 7th
12:02:08 <HolgerK> present+
12:02:08 <caribou> present+
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12:03:12 <AndyS> present+
12:03:19 <DHabgood> present+
12:03:19 <ajnelson-nist> topic: #390 as replacement for #362 (ex namespace)
12:03:29 <ajnelson-nist> scribe: ajnelson-nist
12:03:38 <simonstey> present+
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12:03:52 <TallTed> present+
12:03:54 <TallTed> meeting: Data Shapes Working Group
12:03:54 <ajnelson-nist> elianaP: There is a PR to switch namespaces for examples,
12:04:09 <ajnelson-nist> ... this ended up hitting a line-endings issue making a very large diff
12:04:32 <ajnelson-nist> ... Nick had made a separate PR replacing the original.
12:04:50 <simonstey> https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/pull/390
12:04:52 <TallTed> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/06/30-data-shapes-minutes.html
12:04:54 <TallTed> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/07/14-data-shapes-minutes.html
12:05:22 <ajnelson-nist> HolgerK: It seems the new PR touches the old test cases, but we should probably not touch those.
12:05:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/07-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
12:06:36 <TallTed> chair: elianaP
12:06:47 <ajnelson-nist> ajnelson-nist: There is a way to universally change line endings with .gitattributes, but I (and elianaP ) can't recall if there's a filepath constraint to change this.
12:06:49 <AndyS> q+
12:06:53 <simonstey> https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/pull/362
12:07:10 <ajnelson-nist> elianaP: Suggest to change close 390 without merging,
12:07:34 <ajnelson-nist> ... and work with 362 instead.
12:08:32 <ajnelson-nist> AndyS: We may want to switch tests into 1.0 and 1.2 tests.
12:08:43 <ajnelson-nist> HolgerK: They are already split into separate folders.
12:08:45 <simonstey> q+
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12:09:28 <ajnelson-nist> HolgerK: Suggest someone re-apply Nick's changes into new branch.
12:09:38 <AndyS>  data-shapes-test-suite/tests/ is not obviously 1.0
12:10:00 <simonstey> Q-
12:10:04 <simonstey> q-
12:10:20 <ajnelson-nist> elianaP: will apply the changes.
12:12:09 <TallTed> present+ labra, mgberg
12:12:22 <ajnelson-nist> HolgerK: Note there is also a document for the test suite from 1.0.  Was NOT copied into 1.2 space.
12:12:39 <ajnelson-nist> ... I didn't know what to do with this document.
12:12:51 <ajnelson-nist> ... We don't have an editor of that document.
12:13:07 <ajnelson-nist> ... We could have the document get brought over to 1.2 to describe the 1.0 vs. 1.2 tests.
12:13:16 <TallTed> present+ edmond
12:13:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/07-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
12:15:02 <ajnelson-nist> AndyS: It's not clear if tests are changed from 1.0 to 1.2.  They do have the same test name.
12:15:14 <ajnelson-nist> q+
12:15:47 <ajnelson-nist> AndyS: When I implemented SHACL, I had to look at the test cases, because they had more information.
12:16:35 <ajnelson-nist> elianaP: Do we need a change log comparing the two folders?
12:16:41 <ajnelson-nist> ... Would that help implementers?
12:16:53 <ajnelson-nist> simonstey: It would help people find the test cases that are new.
12:18:17 <bergos> q+
12:18:25 <AndyS> ack me
12:19:18 <ajnelson-nist> ajnelson-nist: Testing 1.2 implementations against 1.0 test cases - 1.2 implementations should continue to pass 1.0, yes?
12:19:23 <ajnelson-nist> (group noted yes)
12:19:30 <ajnelson-nist> ack me
12:20:24 <TallTed> present+ elianaP
12:20:37 <HolgerK> LOL
12:20:49 <ajnelson-nist> bergos: It feels straightforward to run tests against 1.0 and 1.2 folders.
12:22:26 <TallTed> i|chair: elianaP| https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/blob/agenda/admin/agenda-2025-07-07.md
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12:23:04 <Robert> present+
12:23:33 <simonstey> https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/tree/gh-pages/shacl12-test-suite -> new
12:23:43 <ajnelson-nist> ajnelson-nist: Noted some tests have been changed since copying into 1.2 test suite;
12:23:47 <simonstey> https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/tree/gh-pages/data-shapes-test-suite -> old
12:24:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/07-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
12:24:39 <ajnelson-nist> simonstey: Are we permitted to change the folder name for 1.0 test cases?
12:24:46 <ajnelson-nist> elianaP: Unsure if process permits.
12:25:19 <ajnelson-nist> caribou: We could configure the URI to be generated from a different directory.
12:25:45 <TallTed> s| https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/blob/agenda/admin/agenda-2025-07-07.md| agenda: https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/blob/agenda/admin/agenda-2025-07-07.md
12:26:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/07-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
12:26:09 <bergos> q+
12:26:38 <caribou> -> https://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/data-shapes-test-suite/ SHACL 1.0 test suite and implementation report
12:27:39 <ajnelson-nist> elianaP: Instead of renaming folders, is it helpful to add a README in each test folder?
12:27:48 <ajnelson-nist> simonstey: The folders already have these READMEs.
12:28:36 <ajnelson-nist> elianaP: If we are not renaming folders, and we have instructions ... is there an issue remaining?
12:29:15 <ajnelson-nist> AndyS: You somewhat lose the ability to see the new tests.
12:29:38 <TallTed> q+
12:29:43 <bergos> ack me
12:29:58 <ajnelson-nist> bergos: Since READMEs are first things you see when you go to the repository, they should provide enough navigation hints.
12:30:20 <ajnelson-nist> TallTed: Anything outside of the /TR directory can be changed.
12:31:35 <ajnelson-nist> elianaP: Suggest to rename the folder.
12:31:50 <ajnelson-nist> caribou: Can update the redirect on the GitHub repository.
12:32:46 <ajnelson-nist> topic: Allowing lists
12:33:03 <ajnelson-nist> elianaP: There were a few topics in conversation of 407.
12:33:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/07-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
12:33:14 <ajnelson-nist> s/few/few more/
12:33:23 <bergos> q+
12:33:50 <ajnelson-nist> bergos: New idea;
12:34:02 <ajnelson-nist> ... for those not happy with supporting lists, we have node expressions.
12:34:05 <TallTed> q-
12:34:48 <TallTed> https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/issues/407
12:35:03 <simonstey> Topic: add support for sh:TripleTerm to sh:nodeKind and allow lists
12:36:00 <ajnelson-nist> (ajnelson-nist couldn't capture all of the new idea)
12:36:43 <bergos> ack me
12:36:47 <ajnelson-nist> HolgerK: Not seeing the need for different OR combinations with triple terms combined with others.
12:36:56 <ajnelson-nist> ... would prefer to not complicate it further.
12:37:12 <ajnelson-nist> ... Not seeing enough use cases for this.
12:37:36 <ajnelson-nist> simonstey: Justifiable to not include this, as Holger said;
12:38:04 <ajnelson-nist> ... there seem to be some cases that would be AND-ed instead of OR-ed.
12:39:03 <ajnelson-nist> ... TripleTerms seem different enough to justify not including them in the OR-grouping.
12:40:04 <ajnelson-nist> elianaP: Let's take 1 or 2 weeks for this vote.
12:40:44 <ajnelson-nist> simonstey: The list form is sleeker and easier reviewability, BUT would present backwards-compatibility issues.
12:41:20 <ajnelson-nist> elianaP: asked Thomas to include new idea in comment.
12:41:35 <ajnelson-nist> elianaP: Taking 2 weeks for this vote, to account for vacations.
12:41:58 <ajnelson-nist> HolgerK: The old working group would take a straw poll at this point, but we seem decently close either way in this case.
12:42:11 <ajnelson-nist> ... we haven't done a straw poll yet.
12:42:30 <ajnelson-nist> elianaP: Let's not do a straw poll now, but it's an option we can use in the future.
12:42:43 <elianaP> q?
12:42:56 <ajnelson-nist> Topic: Meeting conclusion
12:43:21 <ajnelson-nist> elianaP: Reminder, please look at Issue about triple terms and lists.
12:43:40 <ajnelson-nist> @andy: Started work on formal model for rules and what evaluation means.
12:44:05 <ajnelson-nist> s/@andy/AndyS/
12:44:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/07-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
12:45:09 <caribou> RRSAgent, draft minutes
12:45:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/07-data-shapes-minutes.html caribou