14:13:40 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
14:13:44 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/07/07-coga-irc
14:13:44 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:13:45 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:14:21 <Lisa9> q?
14:14:29 <Lisa9> agenda?
14:14:34 <Lisa9> clear agenda
14:15:49 <Lisa9> agenda+ scribe
14:15:53 <Lisa9> agenda+  actions review  https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.ka7r1m4q5vkc
14:16:17 <Lisa9> agenda+ WCAG directions and survey
14:16:28 <Lisa9> agenda+ plain language path
14:17:59 <Lisa9> agenda+ Calendar Subscribe hint with this link: https://www.w3.org/wbs/35422/wcag3_schedule_25/?login=
14:19:00 <Lisa9> agenda+ suggested change in subgroups . See https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2025Jul/0002.html
14:46:20 <Lisa1> Lisa1 has joined #coga
14:46:24 <Lisa1> Q?
14:46:33 <Lisa1> agenda?
14:46:39 <Lisa1> RRSAgent, publish minutes
14:46:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/07-coga-minutes.html Lisa1
14:58:37 <Lisa1> agenda order 1 3 2 4 5 6
14:59:16 <Charli> Charli has joined #coga
14:59:34 <Charli> present+
14:59:40 <Gareth> Gareth has joined #coga
15:01:16 <alastairc> present+
15:01:25 <Gareth> present+
15:02:25 <alastairc> Can you access this? https://docs.google.com/document/d/129kOf2_Dti54VfIO2X05ElvVsGADROgN/edit
15:02:27 <Lisa1> scribe+ Justine
15:02:32 <Justine> Justine has joined #coga
15:02:44 <Justine> scribe: Justine
15:02:52 <Rain> Rain has joined #coga
15:03:15 <Lisa1> next item
15:03:26 <Jennie_Delisi> Jennie_Delisi has joined #coga
15:03:31 <Justine> Lisa: Moving agenda item forward for Alastair to discuss survey from AG
15:03:34 <julierawe> julierawe has joined #coga
15:03:37 <julierawe> present+
15:04:02 <Jennie_Delisi> present+
15:04:04 <Rain> present+
15:04:10 <Charli> My mic is still not working with Zoom. I'm sorry.
15:04:16 <JeanneEC> JeanneEC has joined #coga
15:04:23 <JeanneEC> present+
15:04:31 <Lisa1> next item
15:04:31 <Justine> present+
15:04:45 <alastairc>  https://docs.google.com/document/d/129kOf2_Dti54VfIO2X05ElvVsGADROgN/edit
15:05:08 <Justine> Alastair: About how AG will be working in the next charter period.
15:05:28 <Justine> ...charter ends later this year, need to determine scope for next 2 years
15:05:52 <Justine> ...By the end of this year, we want an approach of how to finish WCAG 3
15:06:36 <Lisa1> Q+
15:07:13 <Justine> ...High Priority Content: new provisions for COGA and low vision, color contrast algorithm, updates in conformance model, assertions. Approach for conformance claims at bronze, silver, gold.
15:08:01 <Justine> ...Will provide suggestions to regulators on how to use WCAG 3 across all options for publication.
15:08:38 <Justine> Lisa: What is being missed in high priority content? Question for later.
15:08:46 <Jan> Jan has joined #coga
15:08:51 <Jan> present+
15:09:36 <Justine> Alastair: (reviewed types of publication)
15:09:50 <Rain> present+
15:11:58 <Justine> ...Regarding scope- WCAG 3 is largest scope. Regulatory adoption scope is medium scope that can replace WCAG 2.2, and partial scope is smallest size scope (e.g., interim docs on way to larger scopes).
15:13:27 <Justine> ...Content can be divided up in different ways (e.g., by priority, topic, overlap with WCAG 2.2)
15:13:54 <Justine> Lisa: Can we cover what is left out of the different scope types?
15:14:23 <Justine> ...need clarity on what is included in partial scope or regulatory adoption
15:14:52 <Justine> Alastair: Less about details about what is/is not included. About how long each approach will take to get to milestones.
15:15:47 <Justine> ... (reviewed tradeoffs table)
15:17:11 <julierawe> q+
15:18:16 <Lisa1> ack next
15:19:08 <Lisa1> ack next
15:19:09 <Justine> Julie: As we look at tradeoffs table, would you consider adding a row about milestones for publishing the working drafts? Will some topics not get worked on for several years as they are deprioritized or will everything be included?
15:19:27 <Justine> Alastair: We aim to publish working drafts every 6 months regardless of path.
15:20:02 <Justine> ...Content will depend on what subgroups are working on. Larger group would review every 6 months-1 year.
15:20:31 <Lisa1> Q+
15:20:35 <Justine> ...For regulatory adoption scope, we'd include content we are confident will get adopted.
15:21:45 <Justine> ... (reviewed the two different partial scope options)
15:24:52 <Justine> ...2+ partial scope has longest time to regulatory adoption. (offered perspective on the cons of partial scope approaches)
15:25:10 <Justine> Lisa: Who else has questions?
15:26:27 <Justine> ...WCAG 3 scope from a COGA perspective is the safest. Can't get pushed off. The next safest is regulatory adoption scope which would contain some COGA guidelines but not everything.
15:26:52 <Justine> ...Other 2 paths are less clear about what is/is not included in scope.
15:27:04 <Lisa1>  ack next
15:27:15 <Justine> Alastair: Agree somewhat. There is a general desire to improve COGA coverage regardless of options.
15:27:44 <Justine> ...Assertions are key because they are process-based about incremental improvements from an organization.
15:29:30 <Justine> ...the other thing is that WCAG 3 full scope isn't necessarily safe because group wants to post content sooner than 6-10 years.
15:29:43 <Lisa1> Q?
15:29:45 <Jennie_Delisi> Then we have to add the time it takes regulators to add it into their work...
15:30:34 <Justine> Julie: I understand choices but still confused about history of WCAG, how many years transpired from version to version, and why there is suddenly a desire to publish WCAG 3 as soon as possible.
15:30:50 <Rain> q+
15:30:59 <Justine> ...why the push for fastest, and regulators may wait to adopt if they know updates will occur every 2 years.
15:31:35 <Justine> Alastair: Because it has been so difficult to update WCAG 2 it has taken a long time. Pace of technology changes make people feel like WCAG 3 is urgent.
15:31:37 <Lisa1>  ack next
15:32:19 <Justine> Rain: Agree that we need to figure out how to make this happen quickly, even with incremental improvements. Technology is changing so quickly that standards are not sufficient. Is challenging because it leaves things open to interpretation.
15:32:36 <Justine> ...Doesn't work well when you are trying to do the best you can and standards do not align with technology.
15:33:12 <Justine> ...The speed of change regarding AI is happening so fast, unprecedented.
15:33:34 <Justine> ...We can have the best impact with WCAG if we can make small improvements now. People are already using AI to understand WCAG.
15:34:15 <Justine> ...Unless we publish material that AI agents can leverage, people will look for other sources of information that are not based in standards
15:34:46 <Justine> Alastair: Survey will be published soon.
15:34:54 <Jennie_Delisi> q+
15:34:56 <Justine> Lisa: Other questions?
15:35:00 <Lisa1>  ack next
15:35:43 <alastairc> Rain - I'd love to get your perspective on what areas need updating the most based on technology changes. It's something people say a lot, but hard to pin down...
15:36:13 <Justine> Jennie: Having watched a large government agency wait to adopt WCAG 2.1...when you look at key elements that COGA wants implemented, what are your thoughts on different publication options?
15:36:22 <Rain> +1 to Jennie, it's easy to see the pros and cons of all of them
15:37:07 <Rain> alastairc - I'll collaborate with my colleagues to put together a short list of examples and get them to you and the other chairs
15:37:09 <Justine> Alastair: We have structure and content for WCAG. It is difficult to change structure once established.
15:37:26 <Jennie_Delisi> Thank you Alastair
15:37:32 <Lisa1> Q?
15:37:34 <julierawe> Thanks alastairc
15:37:48 <alastairc> Rain - thank you, that would be great.
15:37:48 <Justine> Lisa: Let's move to actions next.
15:38:12 <Lisa1> next item
15:40:47 <Justine> ...tasks for Making Content Usable. We have a call on Tuesdays before the COGA call. If people can join, we assign each person a task which hopefully is easier and faster.
15:41:10 <Rain> q+
15:41:12 <Justine> ...does approach sound okay?
15:41:19 <Lisa1>  ack next
15:41:52 <Justine> Rain: Timing will not work for me. Plan sounds good. We were aiming to cover structure proposal by the end of September.
15:42:25 <Justine> ...I can put together a prototype of structure that can be reviewed by group, then we can begin plugging content in.
15:42:41 <Justine> Lisa: Sounds great.
15:43:15 <Justine> Rain: We can have something to review by end of September.
15:43:33 <Justine> Lisa: Also content that needs to be written beyond patterns.
15:43:52 <Justine> ...putting on agenda for July 21.
15:44:33 <Justine> Jan: I should be able to attend call tomorrow.
15:45:59 <Justine> Lisa: Moving to open issues for Content Usable. Reviewed different action items.
15:46:26 <Justine> ...moving to issue papers. New module structure is complete.
15:46:51 <Justine> ...we have online safety paper ready to go to Github.
15:47:03 <Justine> ...I though we should prioritize safety and supported decision making.
15:47:14 <Justine> ...is less mature, but can still be published.
15:47:29 <Justine> s/though/thought
15:48:16 <Justine> Julie: Conversation voice systems is close. We can resolve open issue.
15:48:46 <Justine> Lisa: We could take open issues and put in editor's notes about them.
15:49:29 <Justine> Lisa: Would supported decision making be ready for editor review this week/next week?
15:49:49 <Justine> Len: Ready to show progress and share where more work is needed.
15:51:08 <Justine> Lisa: We'll spend time next week on helping people engage with COGA.
15:51:21 <Justine> ...passing mic to Julie.
15:51:24 <Lisa1> next item
15:51:58 <julierawe> Please review the Clear Language draft for WCAG 3—you only need to look at the June tab (please ignore the other tabs for now): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q3eVdTVfErkeXMukdiNVRC1MgIDMv_2FrgJ_62silfE/edit?tab=t.nwuwc2hpudpt#heading=h.6j4ngyn01922
15:52:26 <Justine> Julie: Looking at June tab of this multi-tab document
15:53:12 <Justine> ...WCAG 3 is getting ready to publish another draft with subgroups working on different topics including clear language.
15:54:04 <Justine> ...Next version of WCAG 3 has foundational requirements, which each need testing and techniques.
15:54:19 <Lisa1> Foundational Requirements
15:54:19 <Lisa1> Summary
15:54:19 <Lisa1> Unambiguous numbers
15:54:19 <Lisa1> Unambiguous words (this currently covers non-literal language and abbreviations and acronyms, but we can split into two separate requirements)
15:54:21 <Lisa1> Uncommon words
15:54:21 <Lisa1> Unnecessary words or phrases
15:54:21 <Lisa1> Visual aids
15:54:37 <Justine> ...Supplemental requirements don't need to be fully built out.
15:55:09 <Justine> ...Assertions assume there would be requirements about clear language. If that changes, we might approach assertions differently.
15:55:17 <Lisa1> Q+
15:55:39 <Justine> ...This week, we need folks to review June tab and put in comments/questions.
15:56:02 <Justine> ...We need to finalize version for publication by this coming Monday.
15:56:23 <Justine> ...Will look for an additional time slot this week for folks to come and discuss.
15:57:14 <Justine> Lisa: People will not be able to review everything, suggest focusing on foundational requirements (which Lisa listed above in minutes).
15:57:16 <Jan> @julie: If you want to take the Thursday COGA call to work on this as a group, we could use that time. I will plan on putting this on the agenda for the Internationalization Subgroup to discuss during that time.
15:57:44 <Justine> Lisa: If we focus on foundational requirements and user needs, that might be workable.
15:59:15 <Justine> Julie: There are 8 different subgroups in AG. Organizational structure subgroup covers things like white space which is why it is not included in our content.
16:00:12 <Justine> ...There will be many other opportunities to make adjustments in future working drafts.
16:00:16 <Charli> Julie, if I can review and send feedback this week, how do I get the feedback to you? I have to drop for another meeting. You can send me an email at rigglec@amazon.com. Thank you
16:01:12 <Lisa1> RRSAgent, publish minutes
16:01:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/07-coga-minutes.html Lisa1
16:01:29 <Lisa1> ack next
16:02:58 <Justine> Lisa, can you publish minutes? I don't recall the process.