13:57:38 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
13:57:42 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/07/03-wcag2ict-irc
13:57:42 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:57:43 <Zakim> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
13:57:43 <maryjom> zakim, clear agenda
13:57:43 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:57:48 <maryjom> chair:  Mary Jo Mueller
13:58:03 <maryjom> rrsagent, make minutes
13:58:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/03-wcag2ict-minutes.html maryjom
13:58:11 <maryjom> Zakim, please time speakers at 2 minutes
13:58:11 <Zakim> ok, maryjom
13:58:16 <maryjom> agenda+ Announcements
13:58:38 <maryjom> agenda+ PR Proposal approvals and discussions of issues affecting the EN 301 549
14:00:17 <LauraM> LauraM has joined #WCAG2ICT
14:00:40 <LauraM> present+
14:00:55 <Mike_Pluke> Mike_Pluke has joined #wcag2ict
14:01:00 <GreggVan> GreggVan has joined #wcag2ict
14:01:13 <Mike_Pluke> present+
14:01:41 <loicmn> loicmn has joined #wcag2ict
14:01:49 <loicmn> present+
14:01:56 <LauraM> scribe+ LauraM
14:02:03 <bbailey> bbailey has joined #wcag2ict
14:02:08 <LauraM> zakim, next item
14:02:08 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Announcements -- taken up [from maryjom]
14:02:14 <bbailey> present+
14:02:35 <maryjom> present+
14:02:38 <LauraM> Maryjom: not sure if we have regrets.
14:02:44 <ChrisLoiselle> present+
14:03:03 <GreggVan> present+
14:03:40 <LauraM> maryjom: I tried to clarify with the Web Accessibility Initiative folks that we would like to republish the WCAG2ICT note. Tried to find out how heavy a lift that will be.
14:04:12 <LauraM> maryjom: AG working group will have to review. The consensus is that we can do a lightweight process because most is editorial with a few additional notes.
14:05:26 <LauraM> maryjom: They did not seem to be concerned. It should slice off the publication time.  CFC call for consensus to republish. Daniel has been out so we will need to catch him out upon return.
14:05:30 <bbailey> q+ to ask if we are not versioning
14:05:37 <ChrisLoiselle> regrets: Daniel, Mitch
14:05:40 <LauraM> ack bbailey
14:05:40 <Zakim> bbailey, you wanted to ask if we are not versioning
14:05:42 <maryjom> ack bbailey
14:06:15 <LauraM> Bbailey: I don't think we are ready to publish a new version because we have not done the AAA portion.
14:06:29 <LauraM> maryjom: This is just a stepwise version
14:06:38 <LauraM> Maryjom: We will be working on a continuum.
14:07:01 <LauraM> Maryjom: It is important that the EN have a version that shows the language that we agree on.
14:07:18 <LauraM> maryjom: If questions come up they can reference the published version of WCAG2ICT.
14:07:32 <loicmn> loicmn has joined #wcag2ict
14:07:37 <loicmn> present+
14:07:52 <LauraM> maryjom: We can get Daniel onboard and then finish the EN 301549 affecting items.
14:08:13 <LauraM> maryjom: We are not stopping, it's on a continuum.
14:08:45 <LauraM> Zakim, next item
14:08:45 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- PR Proposal approvals and discussions of issues affecting the EN 301 549 -- taken up [from maryjom]
14:09:16 <maryjom> TOPIC: Issue 705 – 2.5.2 Pointer cancellation
14:09:45 <maryjom> Link to issue 705: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/705
14:09:55 <maryjom> Link to PR 717: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/717
14:10:06 <bbailey> I was concerned for a bit because there is *also* https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict-22 but https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict is as expected
14:11:40 <maryjom> TOPIC: Issue 702 - 1.3.1: The EN 301 549 added a note for non-web documents we should consider including in WCAG2ICT
14:11:53 <maryjom> Link to issue 702: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/702
14:12:02 <maryjom> Link to PR 715: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/715
14:12:39 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo, could you share your screen?
14:12:51 <maryjom> NOTE: Where non-web documents contain non-standard structure types (roles), it is best practice to map them to a standard structure type as a fall-back solution for the reader.
14:13:25 <maryjom> In-context the PR adding the note: https://deploy-preview-715--wcag2ict.netlify.app/#applying-sc-1-3-1-info-and-relationships-to-non-web-documents-and-software
14:15:52 <LauraM> GreggVan: Harmonizing with EN should be our focus because they are further along than we are.
14:15:53 <maryjom> POLL: Should we add Note 1 for non-web documents?
14:15:56 <GreggVan> +1
14:15:59 <bbailey> +1
14:16:01 <loicmn> +1
14:16:08 <Mike_Pluke> +1
14:16:09 <ChrisLoiselle> +1
14:16:14 <LauraM> +1
14:16:42 <maryjom> RESOLUTION: Add the proposed Note 1 for non-web documents to SC 1.3.1, as-is
14:17:06 <maryjom> TOPIC: Issue 702 - 1.3.1: The EN 301 549 added a note for non-web documents we should consider including in WCAG2ICT
14:17:14 <maryjom> Link to issue 702: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/702
14:17:21 <maryjom> Link to PR 715: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/715
14:18:42 <maryjom> TOPIC: Issue 691 - Differences between 2.1.1 keyboard guidance in WCAG2ICT and EN 301 549 content in clause 11.2.1.1 Keyboard
14:18:50 <maryjom> Link to issue 691: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/691
14:18:58 <maryjom> Link to PR 718: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/718
14:20:38 <maryjom> In WCAG2ICT Note 1 middle sentence is:  Platform software may provide a ‘keyboard interface’ that software can read instead of reading any keyboard hardware directly.
14:20:53 <maryjom> In the EN 301 549 it is: Platform software may provide device independent input services to applications that enable operation via a keyboard interface.
14:22:39 <ChrisLoiselle> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/718/files you had added in the proposals in the PR , not sure if that helps or not
14:25:51 <bbailey> https://deploy-preview-718--wcag2ict.netlify.app/#applying-sc-2-1-1-keyboard-to-non-web-documents-and-software
14:25:57 <bbailey> q+
14:26:06 <maryjom> ack bbailey
14:26:50 <LauraM> q+
14:27:55 <LauraM> bbailey: I agree it would be better not to talk about documents when we are talking about web.
14:28:19 <LauraM> bbailey: is this a style question
14:28:30 <LauraM> maryjom: We will wait to discuss the style when Daniel returns.
14:29:36 <ChrisLoiselle> q+
14:29:41 <maryjom> ack LauraM
14:30:07 <LauraM> ack LauraM
14:30:09 <ChrisLoiselle> Laura: Is the significant use of platform software term use differs ?
14:31:44 <Mike_Pluke> Q+
14:32:38 <ChrisLoiselle> Platform software vs. platform service . Are they equivalent ? Is it correct?
14:34:21 <LauraM> greggvan: The service is one thing that the platform provides.
14:34:32 <loicmn> q+ to suggest a change in proposal 2 - the service of the platform software
14:36:01 <maryjom> Keyboard interface does not refer to a physical device but to a service of the platform software...
14:36:03 <LauraM> GreggVan: should say "But to the service of the platform software"
14:36:07 <loicmn> q-
14:36:27 <maryjom> ack ChrisLoiselle
14:37:27 <LauraM> ChrisLoiselle: so what you are showing in parenthesis says for non-web software. And then software or non-web document functionality. Do we need to duplicate this note for non web documents?
14:38:06 <maryjom> ack Mike_Pluke
14:38:34 <bbailey> q+ for clarification where EN 301 549 is with this note?
14:39:25 <LauraM> Mike_Pluke: We do use Platform Services. It is not defined. We talk about Platform accessibility services. Whatever we choose here will need to be tightened up.
14:39:47 <LauraM> bbailey: Note 1 proposal 1 - is that what is in EN 301549?
14:39:59 <LauraM> Maryjom: They changed the middle sentence.
14:40:09 <GreggVan> q+ to say   a)  we should use platform software,  service of platform software and b) put the note under docs and software
14:40:48 <maryjom> ack bbailey
14:40:48 <Zakim> bbailey, you wanted to discuss clarification where EN 301 549 is with this note?
14:40:58 <maryjom> ack GreggVan
14:40:58 <Zakim> GreggVan, you wanted to say   a)  we should use platform software,  service of platform software and b) put the note under docs and software
14:41:01 <LauraM> ack GreggVan
14:42:36 <bbailey> q+ to ask if we need to split
14:42:47 <LauraM> ack Bbailey
14:42:48 <Zakim> bbailey, you wanted to ask if we need to split
14:43:31 <ChrisLoiselle> +1 to Bruce's point as that was my point on non-web documents vs. non-web software references within notes
14:44:31 <maryjom> Keyboard interface does not refer to a physical device but to the service of platform software (e.g. operating system, browser, etc.) that provides the software with keystrokes from any keyboard or keyboard substitute. When the "non-web document/software supports such a device-independent service of the platform software, and the "non-web
14:44:31 <maryjom> document/software" functionality is made fully operable through the service, then this success criterion would be satisfied.
14:45:03 <maryjom> s/"software supports/"software" supports/
14:45:07 <LauraM> q+
14:45:08 <loicmn> loicmn has joined #wcag2ict
14:45:17 <loicmn> present+
14:45:58 <maryjom> Keyboard interface does not refer to a physical device but to the service of platform software (e.g. operating system, browser, etc.) that provides the software with keystrokes from any keyboard or keyboard substitute. When the non-web "document/software" supports such a device-independent service of the platform software, and the non-web
14:45:58 <maryjom> "document/software" functionality is made fully operable through the service, then this success criterion would be satisfied.
14:46:08 <maryjom> ack LauraM
14:46:57 <bbailey> q+ to say i think [non-web document and software] can just be [non-web software[
14:47:03 <bbailey> ack me
14:47:05 <Zakim> bbailey, you wanted to say i think [non-web document and software] can just be [non-web software[
14:47:05 <maryjom> ack bbailey
14:47:42 <LauraM> bbailey: We are not talking about non web documents. Should we change the note to reflect that?
14:48:42 <ChrisLoiselle> q+
14:49:00 <bbailey> s/can just be [non-web software[/can just be [non-web software]
14:49:21 <maryjom> ack ChrisLoiselle
14:49:35 <LauraM> q+ to say can character input replace keystrokes?
14:50:09 <maryjom> Keyboard interface does not refer to a physical device but to the service of platform software (e.g. operating system, browser, etc.) that provides the software with keystrokes from any keyboard or keyboard substitute. When the non-web software supports such a device-independent service of the platform software, and the non-web software
14:50:09 <maryjom> functionality is made fully operable through the service, then this success criterion would be satisfied.
14:50:40 <GreggVan> +1
14:50:43 <loicmn> +1 to that version of the note
14:50:53 <bbailey> +1
14:50:56 <Mike_Pluke> +1
14:52:48 <ChrisLoiselle> +1 makes sense in context of what you are stating
14:53:55 <maryjom> RESOLUTION: Modify Note 1 of 2.1.1 Keyboard to the text noted in IRC above
14:54:01 <GreggVan> +1
14:54:04 <bbailey> +1
14:54:07 <Mike_Pluke> +1
14:54:39 <bbailey> q+
14:54:49 <ChrisLoiselle> ok on editorial and e.g. comma topic
14:55:39 <maryjom>  ack LauraM
14:55:39 <Zakim> LauraM, you wanted to say can character input replace keystrokes?
14:55:42 <bbailey> q-
14:56:29 <GreggVan> q+
14:56:34 <maryjom> q?
14:56:55 <maryjom> ack GreggVan
14:57:15 <ChrisLoiselle> LauraM: keystrokes term is still in question for me and input mechanisms.
14:58:13 <LauraM> greggvan: There are many things that can be used as input. We we're saying that things have to use the keyboard interface.
14:58:25 <loicmn> loicmn has joined #wcag2ict
14:58:31 <loicmn> present+
15:06:02 <LauraM> rrsagent, make minutes
15:06:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/03-wcag2ict-minutes.html LauraM
15:16:48 <maryjom> zakim, end meeting
15:16:48 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been LauraM, Mike_Pluke, loicmn, bbailey, maryjom, ChrisLoiselle, GreggVan
15:16:50 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
15:16:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/03-wcag2ict-minutes.html Zakim
15:17:00 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, maryjom; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:17:00 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag2ict
15:17:03 <maryjom> rrsagent, bye
15:17:03 <RRSAgent> I see no action items