14:57:11 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pmwg-a11y
14:57:15 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/07/03-pmwg-a11y-irc
14:57:33 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, this will be pmwg-a11y
14:57:33 <Zakim> ok, AvneeshSingh
14:57:45 <AvneeshSingh> present+
14:57:54 <AvneeshSingh> chair: AvneeshSingh
14:58:29 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ For information:
14:58:43 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Fix the type of the certifierCredential property: Issue #2112
14:59:15 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Evaluator relationship · Issue #2721
14:59:41 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Extended Descriptions in EPUB3: Issue #2691
14:59:48 <George_> George_ has joined #pmwg-a11y
14:59:58 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ A11Y EAA mapping - Shape of fonts: Issue #2752
15:00:08 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Any other business.
15:00:17 <George_> present+
15:03:29 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:03:29 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- For information: -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:03:36 <mgarrish> mgarrish has joined #pmwg-a11y
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15:05:12 <gautierchomel> present+
15:05:26 <gautierchomel> scribe+
15:06:16 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/commit/643e88847369566b81c6b1c34d2e54faf9949356
15:07:23 <Hadrien> Hadrien has joined #pmwg-a11y
15:07:51 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: we already made some changes, including access mode sufficient now mandatory and some shifts on dates. Those are the first changes for epub accessibility 1.2.
15:08:25 <Hadrien> present+
15:08:30 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:08:30 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- Fix the type of the certifierCredential property: Issue #2112 -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:08:32 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: to be discussed further after US holidays
15:08:47 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2112
15:09:40 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:10:12 <gpellegrino> present+
15:13:54 <gautierchomel_> gautierchomel_ has joined #pmwg-a11y
15:14:25 <gautierchomel_> gpellegrino: we are putting the URL to our website
15:15:02 <gautierchomel_> gpellegrino: all other certification aspects like logo are ruled nder a direct contract, not thru metadata
15:15:37 <gautierchomel_> s /nder/under/
15:16:27 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:16:27 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Evaluator relationship · Issue #2721 -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:17:32 <George_> scribe:
15:17:40 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2721
15:18:38 <gautierchomel_> scribe+ George
15:19:01 <George_> Matt: we try to determine if it is third party certification or self sertified.
15:19:35 <George_> Do we need to emphasis this third party certification?
15:19:50 <George_> Should we have actual metadata that states this?
15:21:05 <George_> Gregorio: Self certification does not make sense. The logic is if certifier matches the publisher or creater, then it is self certified.
15:21:50 <George_> George: Rick J said that it is imppossible to match it.
15:22:05 <George_> Avneesh: What does self certification mean?
15:22:31 <gpellegrino> 1+
15:22:33 <gpellegrino> q+
15:22:40 <George_> Matt: Somebody in your organization has certified. It is weak metadata.
15:23:42 <George_> Avneesh: If you self certify, you would not put in certified.
15:25:14 <George_> Gregorio: People are not paying much attendion to the both certifiedby and credential are not used outside of LIA and Benetech.
15:25:15 <Hadrien> q+
15:25:46 <George_> Matt: should we remove the information from the spec?
15:25:57 <George_> Gregorio agrees.
15:26:42 <George_> George: I see in higher ed a lot of weight being put on third party certification.
15:28:41 <George_> Matt: If you put the name of the organization name in, then that is the party certified.
15:29:02 <George_> Thepeople can figure it out themselves.
15:29:52 <George_> Avneesh: We should remove the piece that shows the comparision. Just leave the certifier is the name of the organization. We do not need to get into these issues.
15:30:15 <George_> Are we OK with this? Rexolved, no objection.
15:30:18 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:30:18 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, AvneeshSingh
15:30:28 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:30:36 <gpellegrino> q-
15:30:48 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:31:38 <George_> Hadrian: This has been a problem for us. Publishers are not sure what they can say.
15:31:57 <George_> Anything related to certifier is hard to do something with.
15:32:32 <George_> We only allow a single certifier.
15:33:01 <George_> Having more certifications makes this a complex problem.
15:33:40 <George_> Matt: Using refines is very difficult.
15:35:52 <George_> George: Could we add a simple metadata field that is third party certified?
15:35:53 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:36:24 <George_> Matt: We will still would have an ugly mechanism for presenting the metadata.
15:36:56 <Hadrien> q+
15:37:11 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:37:30 <George_> Avneesh: Can we contact the higher education folks to get their take on third party certification.
15:37:44 <gpellegrino> q+
15:37:57 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:37:59 <George_> Hadrian: This is better suited for ONIX.
15:38:10 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:39:11 <mgarrish> q+
15:39:11 <George_> Gregorio: Making significant changes in the Accessibility metadata would get pushback from the big players.
15:39:41 <George_> Amazon has decided to use only ONIX.
15:39:53 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:40:27 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:40:29 <George_> Matt: Taking the examples outdoes not change anything.
15:41:01 <George_> Let's take out the wishiwashie pieces.
15:42:02 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:42:02 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- Extended Descriptions in EPUB3: Issue #2691 -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:42:40 <George_> Avneesh: We are having this discussion inside DAISY.
15:42:48 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:43:11 <George_> If we want something, we should bring this up.
15:43:42 <George_> Gregorio: I will present what I have proposed.
15:47:05 <Hadrien> q+
15:47:58 <gpellegrino> https://github.com/daisy/transitiontoepub/tree/main/extended-desc-experiments/extended-description-poc/OEBPS
15:48:19 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:48:57 <George_> Hadrian: The complexity for RA is that there are so many ways to present the information.
15:49:14 <mgarrish> q+
15:49:26 <gpellegrino> q+
15:49:41 <George_> What is confusing is that there are so many ways to provided additional/long/extended description.
15:49:42 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:50:10 <George_> Matt: This seems to be the domain of best practices.
15:50:45 <George_> Gregorio are accustom to copy what we suggest.
15:51:10 <Hadrien> q+
15:51:13 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:51:23 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:51:24 <George_> Gregorio: We want one way to provide this and have many organizations adopt.
15:51:27 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:52:00 <George_> Hadrian: We cannot assume that a best practice will be adopted.
15:52:04 <gpellegrino> q+
15:52:35 <George_> People will not always follow best practice.
15:52:39 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:53:15 <George_> Gregorio: One guideline for publishers.
15:53:46 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:53:48 <George_> Another document for what the RS should do.
15:55:09 <gpellegrino> q+
15:55:29 <Hadrien> q+
15:55:43 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:55:59 <George_> George: We have a test experimental book on go back and history.
15:56:33 <George_> Gregorio: There are other best practices that we need to develop
16:00:20 <George_> Avneesh:  Next call will be July 17.
16:01:19 <AvneeshSingh> rrsagent, make minutes
16:01:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/03-pmwg-a11y-minutes.html AvneeshSingh
16:01:34 <AvneeshSingh> rrsagent, make logs public
16:02:59 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, leave
16:02:59 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been AvneeshSingh, George, mgarrish, Madeleine, George_, gautierchomel, Hadrien, gpellegrino
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