12:00:27 RRSAgent has joined #wot 12:00:31 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-wot-irc 12:00:40 meeting: WoT-WG/IG 12:01:04 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Koster, Michael_McCool 12:02:53 dezell has joined #wot 12:03:07 present+ David_Ezell 12:05:08 present+ Kunihiko_Toumura, Tomoaki_Mizushima 12:05:21 present+ Tetsushi_Matsuda 12:05:50 rrsagent, make log public 12:05:54 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:05:55 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:06:02 chair: Koster 12:06:08 regrets+ Sebastian 12:06:10 matsuda has joined #wot 12:06:52 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#2_July_2025 12:07:26 scribenick: McCool 12:07:49 topic: guests 12:07:57 Mizushima has joined #wot 12:08:00 mk: new member, but not here today 12:08:06 s/guests/Guests, New Members, IEs/ 12:08:19 ... pending ie requests, nothing happening today 12:08:22 q+ 12:08:46 kaz: still waiting for responses, e.g. registrations 12:09:02 ... and to schedule Crris' presentation 12:09:09 topic: minutes 12:09:21 -> https://www.w3.org/2025/06/25-wot-minutes.html Jun-25 12:09:23 mk: from June 25, assume people have reviewed already 12:09:31 s/topic: min/topic: Min/ 12:10:37 mm: for the record the PRs that we resolved to merge last week have now been merged. 12:11:06 mk: made a resolution to ask for a 3mo extension to work on the new charter 12:12:52 mm: looks like there is a duplicate of the resolution to merge PR #363, delete the one, #2, that now has a broken link 12:12:55 kaz: fixed 12:13:23 mk: accept? 12:13:31 ... hearing no objections, approved 12:13:38 topic: Quick Items 12:13:38 s/resolution to/resolution at the bottom to 12:13:44 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:13:46 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:13:53 subtopic: Schedule for FPWD for TD 2.0 12:14:05 mk: discussed in TD TF 12:14:28 ... need to publish for TD 2.0 and registry in this charter period 12:14:38 ... registry is relatively straightforward 12:14:57 ... but for TD, what do we include by September? 12:15:30 ... about 6 working weeks between now and then 12:15:38 i|discussed|-> https://www.w3.org/2025/06/18-wot-td-minutes.html#e325 TD call on June 18| 12:15:40 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:15:42 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:15:48 ... there is a list of items to be worked on 12:16:03 ... biggest item is the old binding templates document which Ege would like to clean up 12:16:15 ... there are other work items 12:16:27 ... the registry of course, 12:16:39 ... but also document reformatting 12:16:47 ... manageable affordances, 12:16:55 ... data mapping, etc. 12:17:22 ... at this point, we would like to publish the document as-is, then follow up with more work later 12:17:23 q+ 12:17:24 q? 12:17:25 q+ 12:17:51 kaz: the TD task force has some basic idea; confirm this direction first 12:17:59 ack k 12:18:02 ... then TD can think of concrete date 12:18:12 ack m 12:18:38 q+ 12:19:16 mm: purpose of an FPWD is to gather input, so I suggest at least adding editor's notes indicating where things are likely to change, e.g. what the plan is 12:19:36 kaz: I also suggested this in the TD call 12:19:44 ... but they need to have more discussion 12:20:28 ... as a starting point for the schedule, we should at least capture the goal to publish an FPWD by 12:20:44 q? 12:20:45 s/FPWD by/FPWD by September/ 12:20:57 q- 12:23:54 dape has joined #wot 12:24:00 Proposal: TD task force is to prepare the TD specification document for publication by the end of September at the latest, final date to be determined by the TD task force, scope to include basic clean-up and editors notes describing the planned new sections and content. The registry document is to be included in this plan. 12:25:07 q+ 12:26:25 q- 12:26:30 present+ Daniel_Peintner 12:26:53 mm: need a call for resolution to the WG, and two weeks for review... 12:27:34 kaz: the resolution can be about the WG publishing by end of Sept, TD TF needs to work back from that to establish a detailed schedule... 12:28:04 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:28:06 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:28:31 Proposal: The WoT Working Group shall publish the TD 2.0 draft specification document and first draft of the registry document by the end of September at the latest, final date to be proposed by the TD task force, scope to include basic clean-up and editors notes describing the planned new sections and content. 12:29:51 Proposal: The WoT Working Group shall publish the First Public Working Draft of the TD 2.0 specification document and first draft of the registry document by the end of September at the latest, final date to be proposed by the TD task force, scope to include basic clean-up and editors notes describing the planned new sections and content. 12:30:47 Resolution: The WoT Working Group shall publish the First Public Working Draft of the TD 2.0 specification document and first draft of the registry document by the end of September at the latest, final date to be proposed by the TD task force, scope to include basic clean-up and editors notes describing the planned new sections and content. 12:31:02 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:31:03 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:31:42 regrets+ Ege, Mahda 12:31:44 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:31:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:32:03 subtopic: new charter 12:32:33 mk: we need to discuss the new charter, are discussing getting rid of the IG and doing everything in the WG 12:32:33 q+ 12:32:58 kaz: possible, but we decide what is defined by each 12:33:31 s|new charter|Start WG/IG structure discussion for the new Charter| 12:33:40 q- 12:33:49 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:33:51 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:33:57 q+ 12:34:08 mm: one issue with shutting down the IG is that we might have to shut down or rehome some documents, I know the UC&R doc is published by the IG. 12:34:52 mm: plugfest is also an IG event, but it could be a CG/WG joint event, which allows for outside attendees 12:36:16 mm: I did look at this when I split the schedule 12:36:34 kaz: it would be easier for us to think about what needs to be done rather than concrete text 12:36:51 ... after we do that, then we can update the charter (or charters) 12:37:33 kaz: today mk just wanted to give a heads-up for that possible direction 12:37:42 s/mk just/Koster just/ 12:37:57 q- 12:37:58 mk: we know we have one thing we want to change, which is to add a provision for user stories in the task forces 12:38:07 ... something we are already doing 12:38:25 mk: also the use-case work is maturing, getting close to a maintenance state 12:38:36 ... then there is marketing and plugfest 12:38:51 q? 12:38:51 mm: marketing is IG too, right? 12:38:54 kaz: yes 12:39:10 s/yes/yes, at the moment/ 12:39:33 q? 12:39:52 mm: just one comment on user stories, my intention at least was that is could be used for both top-down AND bottom-up requirements documentation 12:40:00 q+ 12:40:06 q+ 12:40:17 q- later 12:40:31 ack mc 12:41:56 mm: the intent was to have a procedure that is appropriate for both capturing TF-generated requirements and external feature requests 12:42:12 ... the purely top-down approach we had before was not working 12:42:22 q- 12:43:05 mk: if we only have user story generation requirements in TF, they could do it top-down or bottom-up 12:43:22 ... but TF participation is limited to WG members 12:43:27 q+ 12:43:51 q+ 12:45:23 ack mc 12:46:01 mm: couple comments, purely internal requirements can be unhealthy, and there may be requirements that don't fit in an existing TF. However, for external requirements, we need to focus on a process that gives us *actionable* requirements and not just vague scenarios. 12:46:48 kaz: note however there is no big difference between IG Note and WG Note. We can use github issues to get input from outside the WG. 12:47:24 mm: it is purely a technical issue. As long as we can collect external input and act on it, that's fine 12:47:39 kaz: correct. clarifying the basic schedule is also important. 12:47:58 mk: what do you mean by clarifying? 12:48:24 s/correct/correct. so we don't need to get concerned about which group to handle what :)/ 12:48:39 s/important/important as the starting point/ 12:48:44 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:48:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:48:51 q+ 12:48:56 ack k 12:49:19 q+ 12:49:40 mm: I think you need to fill in some intermediate steps in the schedule 12:49:56 ack m 12:50:28 mk: editors need to update the schedules along this line 12:50:33 dlehn3 has joined #wot 12:50:46 q- 12:51:23 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/planning/ig-schedule.md IG Schedule 12:51:58 mk: so you are saying we need some internal milestones 12:52:20 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:52:22 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:52:32 ... for both publications and new charter 12:52:33 q+ 12:53:15 q- 12:53:34 i|IG Schedule|subtopic: IG Schedule| 12:53:37 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:53:38 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:53:44 kaz: there is a PR, #1231, that we should look at and update 12:54:40 mk: we have gotten rid of old dates that have passed, we have to recalculate the dates for the new charter. 12:55:15 i|editors need|kaz: McCool has started to update the IG schedule and Koster has started to update the WG schedule, so I'd suggest we start with looking at those proposed schedule :)/ 12:55:28 s|)/|)| 12:55:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:55:31 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:55:37 mk: still Security doc updates, but an unknown since no TF 12:55:49 mm: The security work though is mostly cleanup, but yes, without a TF we can't really work on it 12:56:04 i|PR, #1231|subtopic: WG Schedule| 12:56:39 i|PR, #1231|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1232 PR 1232 12:57:26 s/PR 1232/PR 1232 - Update wg-schedule.md/ 12:57:29 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:57:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:58:02 mk: can merge 1232 and cancel 1231 12:58:22 ... it is just cleanup, then we have a basis for future new items 12:58:36 ... and the changes proposed in 1231 are included in 1232 12:58:51 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:58:52 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:59:23 s/#1231, that/#1232, that/ 13:00:03 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:00:04 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:00:33 mk: (closes 1231 without merging) 13:00:33 q? 13:00:35 mk: (merges 1232) 13:00:57 q+ 13:01:22 q- 13:01:37 kaz: request for all editors to update schedule will concrete dates, please 13:02:06 kaz: no plugfest call today, but am talking with event team about logistics 13:02:16 mk: adjourned, no profile or plugfest call today 13:02:42 i|kaz: no plug|topic: AOB| 13:02:47 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:02:48 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:03:16 i|McCool has started|scribenick: kaz| 13:03:33 i|mk: editors need|scribenick: McCool| 13:03:35 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:03:36 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:04:53 s|we need to discuss the Start WG/IG structure discussion for the new Charter|new Charter| 13:05:13 i|subtopic: new charter|subtopic: Start WG/IG structure discussion for the new Charter| 13:05:15 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:05:16 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:07:22 s/new Charter, are/we need to discuss the new Charter, are/ 13:07:29 s/subtopic: new charter// 13:07:31 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:07:32 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-wot-minutes.html kaz