12:34:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
12:34:51 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-apa-irc
12:34:51 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:34:52 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
12:35:01 <janina> Meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference
12:35:07 <janina> Date: 02 Jul 2025
12:35:11 <janina> Chair: Janina
12:35:15 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
12:35:15 <janina> agenda+ APA re-charter
12:35:15 <janina> agenda+ Horizontal Review process update
12:35:15 <janina> agenda+ New on TR
12:35:15 <janina> agenda+ Charter review requests
12:35:18 <janina> agenda+ [Spec review requests](https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues)
12:35:20 <janina> agenda+ [Comment review requests](https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review)
12:35:23 <janina> agenda+ [CSS Update (Paul)](https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues)
12:35:26 <janina> agenda+ Other business
12:35:28 <janina> agenda+ Be done
13:02:22 <janina>  /join #rqtf
13:58:11 <janina> agenda?
13:58:17 <janina> present+
13:59:51 <janina> regrets: Fredrik_Fischer, Gautier_Chomel, Alisa_Smith, Gottfried_Zimmerman
14:01:38 <PaulG> PaulG has joined #apa
14:02:02 <PaulG> present+
14:03:06 <Dr_Keith> Dr_Keith has joined #apa
14:03:32 <matatk> matatk has joined #apa
14:03:37 <matatk> present+
14:04:26 <PaulG> scribe+
14:04:40 <matatk> agenda?
14:04:50 <Dr_Keith> present+
14:04:57 <PaulG> zakim, take up next item
14:04:57 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
14:05:12 <mike_beganyi> mike_beganyi has joined #apa
14:06:00 <PaulG> janina: TPAC planning continues, there's more work to do, but the agenda should be ready in 2 weeks
14:06:02 <mike_beganyi> present+
14:06:14 <PaulG> zakim, take up next item
14:06:14 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- APA re-charter -- taken up [from janina]
14:06:54 <PaulG> janina: re-chartering is in process. We're looking for votes from members. We're currently at 11 and we need another dozen or so.
14:07:24 <PaulG> ... many orgs have not yet voted so please have your reps cast their votes
14:07:51 <Neha> Neha has joined #apa
14:07:54 <janina> ghttps://www.w3.org/wbs/33280/apawg-recharter-202Results: https://www.w3.org/wbs/33280/apawg-recharter-2025/results/
14:08:00 <matatk> Voting on APA charter: https://www.w3.org/wbs/33280/apawg-recharter-2025/
14:08:26 <PaulG> ...we have until the end of July to get this done
14:08:28 <PaulG> zakim, take up next item
14:08:28 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Horizontal Review process update -- taken up [from janina]
14:09:31 <PaulG> matatk: recap: we are improving the horizontal review process. We're close to the first major change which is the HTML version of the self-review checklist.
14:09:50 <Neha> present+
14:09:59 <matatk> Process for raising issues as part of spec review: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Horizontal_Review#For_Specifications_2
14:10:25 <PaulG> ...the improvements for folks doing reviews from APA includes raising issues
14:10:54 <PaulG> ...I want to add a couple of things to these instructions. You can follow this process and raise comments as part of an a11y review.
14:11:10 <PaulG> ...We'd like people to use this process when you do your next review.
14:11:25 <PaulG> ...We can adjust the process based on feedback.
14:11:45 <PaulG> ...There's an issue template that we're happy with.
14:12:44 <PaulG> ...There's a couple of reviews outstanding so we can use this process for those as well (e.g., web neural network, etc.)
14:12:59 <PaulG> ...any questions?
14:13:03 <PaulG> (crickets0
14:13:32 <PaulG> matak: If there's anything you want to see more of in the documentation, let us know.
14:13:51 <matatk> s/matak/matatk/
14:13:56 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:13:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-apa-minutes.html matatk
14:14:05 <PaulG> janina: We think it will make our lives easier
14:14:05 <PaulG> zakim, take up next item
14:14:05 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- New on TR -- taken up [from janina]
14:14:37 <Roy_Ruoxi> subtopic: Digital Credentials
14:14:47 <Roy_Ruoxi> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/155/views/1?pane=issue&itemId=118175398&issue=w3c%7Ca11y-longituidinal-tracking%7C26
14:14:58 <Roy_Ruoxi> https://www.w3.org/TR/digital-credentials/
14:15:37 <PaulG> Roy_Ruoxi: there is an accessibility considerations section but it has no content. This is a first public working draft
14:15:49 <PaulG> ...someone could start looking into this one
14:15:59 <matatk> q+
14:16:19 <matatk> ack me
14:16:20 <janina> ack ma
14:16:26 <PaulG> janina: In the past we've had Lionel look at this but anyone can look into it.
14:16:55 <PaulG> matatk: it's very specific, it relates to digital versions of physical credentials such as government ids.
14:18:00 <janina> q?
14:18:17 <PaulG> ...it's related to verifiable credentials. But not completely because of the analog to physical documents.
14:18:51 <PaulG> janina: we're early in the process so we want to get on this while we have plenty of time. I'd like to assign Lionel and myself.
14:19:35 <PaulG> matatk: some additional background, various government groups are discussing this issue in a conference: trust, verifiability, security, etc.
14:19:39 <janina> q?
14:19:51 <PaulG> ...W3C is involved because there's a big push right now.
14:20:24 <PaulG> ...it's something for RQTF but we should also consider various mailing lists to get many eyes on it.
14:20:43 <Roy_Ruoxi> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:20:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-apa-minutes.html Roy_Ruoxi
14:20:51 <janina> q?
14:21:03 <PaulG> Neha: I'd be happy to contribute to this.
14:21:52 <PaulG> janina: it will be at least 2 weeks before we come back to this
14:21:56 <Roy_Ruoxi> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/155/views/1?pane=issue&itemId=118175398&issue=w3c%7Ca11y-longituidinal-tracking%7C26
14:22:11 <PaulG> zakim, take up next item
14:22:11 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Charter review requests -- taken up [from janina]
14:22:17 <Roy_Ruoxi> subtopic: Web Applications Working Group Charter
14:22:31 <Roy_Ruoxi> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/155/views/1?pane=issue&itemId=118111252&issue=w3c%7Ca11y-request%7C115
14:22:41 <Roy_Ruoxi> https://w3c.github.io/webappswg/charter/draft-charter-2025.html
14:23:19 <PaulG> janina: it's a busy group, we've worked with them often. Is there anything new in the charter?
14:23:31 <PaulG> Roy_Ruoxi: they didn't mention any liaison with us
14:23:47 <PaulG> janina: we haven't had a problem working with them when we need to, so not sure it's needed.
14:24:13 <PaulG> Roy_Ruoxi: there are some new concepts in their charter
14:24:13 <janina> q?
14:24:49 <PaulG> matatk: devices and sensors has a collaboration spec for device orientation and motion
14:25:17 <PaulG> janina: I'm inclined to say we can sign off on this, I have no concerns
14:25:20 <PaulG> matatk: agreed
14:25:35 <PaulG> zakim, take up next item
14:25:35 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- [Spec review requests](https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues) -- taken up [from janina]
14:26:02 <janina> regrets+ Jennifer
14:26:31 <PaulG> matatk: we don't have Jen on the call and we have a lot of CSS to get to. The Web Neural Networks API, where we published our comment last week, we also discussed some other issues.
14:27:17 <PaulG> ...Paul raised a good point that we can raise issues with other groups like audio description and ensure the ideas get into other areas like VTT (unsure of minuting).
14:27:37 <PaulG> ...I'd like to have someone follow our new process to make these comments.
14:28:01 <Roy_Ruoxi> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:28:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-apa-minutes.html Roy_Ruoxi
14:28:37 <PaulG> I can try to make a comment about audio description.
14:28:50 <PaulG> matatk: I'm happy to help and we can look at it again next week
14:29:52 <PaulG> zakim, take up next item
14:29:52 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- [Comment review requests](https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review) -- taken up [from janina]
14:30:28 <matatk> subtopic: Canvas Text Metrics for Editing, Art and Design
14:30:29 <matatk> source: w3ctag/design-reviews#1095
14:30:29 <matatk> tracking: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-review/issues/233
14:32:15 <PaulG> matatk: this is about putting text on the canvas in artistic ways
14:32:44 <PaulG> ...this could involve fallback content as well as live regions if it was dynamic in nature
14:33:18 <matatk> scribe+
14:33:53 <matatk> PaulG: My main concern is that <canvas> itself is like 3 raccoons in a trenchcoat; it doesn't really have a good fallback. COGA reasons (e.g. dyslexia); reading order could be a mess; ...
14:35:24 <PaulG> mike_beganyi: to echo Paul, changing direction and flow and making that available to AT is an issue. I mentioned skew, kerning, but not dyslexia specifically.
14:36:03 <PaulG> matatk: Jeffery Askin suggested that references to the elements could have fallbacks.
14:36:17 <janina> q?
14:37:43 <matatk> PaulG: Non-text content needs a text description if you want to meet the spirit of WCAG. Having artistic text floating around in a canvas was not anticipated by WCAG.
14:37:57 <matatk> janina: Canvas came along in HTML as a method to provide bits on screen.
14:38:41 <matatk> PaulG: What I'm guessing is that even though AG may be aware of it, they may think it's not an evolving area.
14:38:57 <matatk> janina: Concern around an area of the page having its own ecosystem.
14:39:14 <matatk> PaulG: Whole thing needs role=image and a text description at a minimum.
14:39:33 <matatk> janina: The idea of mapping the API to elements sounds interesting to me. I like the subversive implications of putting it into an API.
14:39:56 <PaulG> matatk: this is an active TAG review and will probably be asked for my thoughts on it.
14:40:11 <matatk> HTML in Canvas: https://github.com/WICG/html-in-canvas
14:40:45 <PaulG> ...there's something called HTML in canvas which is new APIs for rendering 2d and webGL. It would be in the DOM but it would be rendered in the canvas.
14:41:22 <PaulG> ...they mention accessibility improvements and they mention the fallback and better support for it.
14:41:43 <matatk> janina: That sounds like a good approach
14:42:24 <matatk> PaulG: +1
14:42:57 <mike_beganyi> +1
14:43:17 <matatk> subtopic: [css-overflow-5] Discrete versus navigation scroll marker mode
14:43:17 <matatk> source: w3c/csswg-drafts#12122
14:43:17 <matatk> tracking: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-review/issues/236
14:45:43 <matatk> matatk: Concern about overreach, CSS imparting roles and behavior.
14:45:55 <matatk> PaulG: Concern that this conflicts with named anchors.
14:47:07 <matatk> janina: What he said"
14:47:13 <matatk> s/What he said"/What he said!/
14:47:16 <mike_beganyi> +12
14:47:58 <matatk> subtopic: Add hover/focus/long-press triggering delays to CSS
14:47:58 <matatk> source: w3c/csswg-drafts#9236
14:47:58 <matatk> tracking: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-review/issues/205
14:48:37 <matatk> PaulG: This is something that most devs are already trained to do.
14:48:45 <matatk> ... Have two concepts: throttle and debounce.
14:49:17 <matatk> ... Those two mechanisms for adding a slight delay - either for perceived improved performance, or preventing someone from moving their pointer across the screen and being bombarded by pop-ups - could be useful.
14:49:33 <matatk> ... Seems compatible with WCAG - don't hide stuff whilst someone's using it, for example.
14:50:13 <matatk> ... the appearance of it can be delayed slightly, that's fine, and it can animate out - doesn't affect the WCAG angle.
14:50:42 <matatk> ... Doesn't use JavaScript, so that's good, though custom tooltips not really needed. But it's OK.
14:52:11 <Fazio> Fazio has joined #apa
14:52:27 <matatk> subtopic: Triage
14:52:42 <matatk> PaulG: Pointer Animations - if it respects reduced motion should be OK
14:53:38 <matatk> PaulG: interactivity needs discussion - see Patrick Lauke's point that it will affect discoverability - e.g. if you look for other slides, and they're not in the accTree, you won't find them.
14:54:27 <PaulG> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/10711
14:54:46 <matatk> Paul's comment: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/10711#issuecomment-3020935396
14:55:14 <matatk> Patrick's comment: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/10711#issuecomment-2770346540
14:55:51 <matatk> Scott O'Hara's comment: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/10711#issuecomment-2310950905
14:56:05 <PaulG> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/2528
14:56:18 <PaulG> This was the other issue Patrick wanted interest on
14:57:07 <matatk> zakim, end meeting
14:57:07 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been janina, PaulG, matatk, Dr_Keith, mike_beganyi, Neha
14:57:08 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:57:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/07/02-apa-minutes.html Zakim
14:57:15 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, matatk; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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15:00:52 <Neha> Neha has left #apa
15:02:38 <janina> janina has left #apa