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13:57:56 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/06/30-lws-irc
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13:58:19 <acoburn> acoburn has changed the topic to: Linked Web Storage Meeting 30 June, 2025
13:58:26 <acoburn> zakim, start meeting
13:58:26 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:58:27 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), acoburn
13:58:32 <acoburn> meeting: Linked Web Storage
13:58:35 <gibsonf1> gibsonf1 has joined #lws
13:58:36 <acoburn> chair: acoburn
13:58:52 <acoburn> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20250630T100000/#agenda
13:58:52 <agendabot> clear agenda
13:58:52 <agendabot> agenda+ Introduction and announcements
13:58:52 <agendabot> agenda+ Use cases: scope and status
13:58:52 <agendabot> agenda+ Deriving requirements from use cases
13:58:52 <agendabot> agenda+ Updates on research teams
13:59:00 <gibsonf1> present+
13:59:12 <acoburn> present+
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13:59:21 <acoburn> RRSAgent, make minutes
13:59:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/30-lws-minutes.html acoburn
13:59:49 <eBremer> present+
14:00:26 <TallTed> present+
14:00:34 <RazaN> present+
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14:01:01 <TallTed> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/06/23-lws-minutes.html
14:01:02 <TallTed> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/07/07-lws-minutes.html
14:01:29 <cpn> present+
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14:03:22 <bendm> present+
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14:04:14 <ryey> present+
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14:05:07 <acoburn> zakim, open agendum 1
14:05:07 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Introduction and announcements -- taken up [from agendabot]
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14:05:15 <jeswr> present+
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14:05:32 <ericP> present+
14:06:22 <eBremer> acoburn: this years tpac in japan
14:06:57 <eBremer> ...nice to have face to face in Belgium in the fall
14:07:15 <jeswr> brief announcement from my side there will be a presentation on W3C Linked Web Storage (LWS) at https://globaldigitalcollaboration.org/agenda?day=2025-07-02
14:07:16 <eBremer> ... early October...somewhere in Belgium..more details coming
14:07:48 <eBremer> jeswr: there is a presentation of LWS tuesday wednesday this week
14:08:16 <eBremer> acoburn: # of folks including Pierre-Antoine at that conference
14:08:24 <cpn> s/tuesday/at the Global Digital Collaboration conference, tuesday/
14:09:06 <acoburn> zakim, open agendum 2
14:09:06 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Use cases: scope and status -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:09:46 <eBremer> acoburn: fairly significant PR fgrom eBremer
14:10:04 <eBremer> ... aggregates the use cases using LLMs
14:10:17 <eBremer> ... it would be good to get that moved into the repo
14:10:46 <eBremer> ... one of the open questions came from uvdsl whether some things were in-scope or not
14:11:08 <eBremer> ... there will be time for us to discuss what is or isn't but right now is not the time top explicitly indicate this
14:11:31 <eBremer> ... use cases are all-important, there will be UC that will not be addressed by the protocol...
14:12:17 <eBremer> ... somethings are lower priority.  Even though they may not be part of the protocol, I would be inclined to be broad in the scope at this time and trim later
14:12:38 <eBremer> ... make sure that folks feel the same or different right now
14:12:58 <bendm> +1
14:13:16 <cpn> q+
14:13:24 <acoburn> ack next
14:13:45 <eBremer> cpn: you talked about having a set of use cases that is part of some future version..
14:13:57 <eBremer> ... like to see a set of use cases that describes version 1
14:14:09 <eBremer> ... and a protocol that addresses them...
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14:14:32 <ericP> q?
14:14:35 <ericP> q+
14:14:42 <eBremer> acoburn: i agree with you.  in a perfect world we would have a set of use cases that maps to what is in the protcol
14:15:08 <eBremer> ... but there will be a winnowing process at that point to derive those requirements
14:15:39 <eBremer> ... but there will be further winnowing as prioritization is set
14:16:19 <eBremer> ... are charter says we will not create new use cases, so we will definitely not have these use cases
14:17:15 <eBremer> cpn: i agree with having a broader scope in the use cases, which features included in a version 1 or deferred to a future version
14:17:36 <eBremer> ... if there are features that go in that we dont have use cases for i would be concerned
14:17:57 <eBremer> acoburn: I agree with you that we dont want things in the protocol that dont map to a use case
14:17:59 <acoburn> ack next
14:18:35 <eBremer> ericP: try to massage use cases to get only what is in-scope
14:19:00 <ryey> q+
14:19:15 <eBremer> ... lot of things will be out of scope, but we want to be able to add to those use cases with our tech, someone else layer on top of it
14:20:04 <eBremer> ... we should be happy to include lots of use cases but make it clear what is actually in scope and which ones are at risk ..
14:20:19 <acoburn> ack next
14:20:35 <eBremer> ryey: are we still open to new cases at the moment?
14:20:38 <eBremer> acoburn: still open
14:21:01 <eBremer> ... as things become more clear, there may be gaps and we should have use cases that fill those gaps
14:21:06 <eBremer> ryey: right
14:22:50 <cpn> eBremer: I'd like PR 166 to be ready to merge by end of the day. Christoph made suggestions, I'll work on those
14:23:01 <acoburn> -> Use cases PR https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/pull/166
14:23:01 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/pull/166 -> Pull Request 166 Update user-stories.md (by ebremer)
14:23:15 <cpn> ... Some comments about scope, I don't disagree with what was said, but what aspect of the use cases would we address in v1 to address the use case
14:23:40 <cpn> ... Tim had one about interlinkability of medical data. Good use case, but out of scope as is. Elements could be derived from it that could go in the spec
14:23:54 <cpn> ... Pierre commented on the ToC, addressed by Hadrian
14:24:20 <cpn> ... I'll work on it today, but things can still be changed
14:25:14 <cpn> acoburn: Please shout if you need more time, but want to get this merged
14:25:26 <cpn> eBremer: There's additional material from ?? that I'll include as well
14:25:45 <acoburn> zakim, open agendum 3
14:25:45 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Deriving requirements from use cases -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:27:59 <eBremer> acoburn: how do people feel about deriving the requirements from the use cases
14:28:19 <eBremer> ... we will have a set of requirements for CRUD operations
14:28:38 <eBremer> ... for discoverability and capabilities
14:28:43 <eBremer> q+
14:28:54 <acoburn> ack next
14:29:27 <bendm> +1 to use LLMs as a first start
14:29:29 <cpn> eBremer: It's useful for the LLM digest everything then have humans edit. Any interest in seeing that as a starting point?
14:29:31 <bendm> q+ to ask about granularity
14:29:40 <acoburn> ack next
14:29:41 <Zakim> bendm, you wanted to ask about granularity
14:29:51 <ericP> +1 to asking the LLM for reqs if it seems like the ROI will motivate
14:30:08 <bendm> https://www.w3.org/TR/did-use-cases/#requirements
14:30:31 <cpn> bendm: Is the level of granularity similar to what the DID use cases and requirements looks like? Those are very high level. A LLM could generate something high level like that
14:31:21 <cpn> acoburn: What's the right level is a good question. We don't have any requirements right now. Anything will help at this point. I'd be fine starting high level, like the DID requirements
14:31:50 <cpn> ... If we find more granular would be more useful, we can do that. But I want to start, and help move forward quickly with the protocol document editing
14:31:59 <cpn> bendm: Agree
14:32:30 <eBremer> ericP: get what you can out of the LLM
14:32:45 <eBremer> ... any work you are willing to put into it
14:33:15 <cpn> eBremer: Happy to work on it, then it's up to the group whether to use it or not
14:33:15 <kaefer3000> fyi - here is another use-cases and requirements document that works with more details https://www.w3.org/TR/sdw-ucr/
14:34:33 <eBremer> kaefer3000: that was out blueprint that we tried linking deliverables
14:34:55 <eBremer> .... arranged quite differently from DID one
14:35:11 <eBremer> ... it did not have use cases and requirements so much in the headlines
14:35:12 <eBremer> ...
14:35:39 <eBremer> acoburn: thank you very helpful
14:35:56 <eBremer> ... if we can move forward on the use cases...
14:36:11 <eBremer> ... dont know have time to have requirements for next week
14:36:19 <eBremer> ... to see this momentum
14:36:39 <cpn> eBremer: I can create a draft PR tis week
14:36:45 <cpn> s/tis/this/
14:37:05 <eBremer> acoburn: any other thoughts on deriving requirements?
14:37:13 <acoburn> zakim, open agendum 4
14:37:13 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Updates on research teams -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:37:38 <eBremer> ... last week we talked about research teams taking on areas of protocol document
14:37:53 <eBremer> ... areas like authorization, discovery....
14:38:02 <eBremer> ... wanted to check in on where things are
14:38:44 <eBremer> jesse: if there are any areas people want to lead on
14:39:01 <eBremer> ... or people that you think would make a good invited expert
14:39:06 <bendm> q+ to put the areas on the mailing list?
14:39:29 <eBremer> jesse: Jackson put his hand up for discovery
14:39:46 <eBremer> ... authorizations another big one
14:39:50 <acoburn> ack next
14:39:51 <Zakim> bendm, you wanted to put the areas on the mailing list?
14:40:08 <eBremer> bendm: on the mailing list
14:40:15 <eBremer> acoburn: fantastic idea
14:40:26 <kaefer3000> +1 to sending this over the mailing list
14:40:27 <eBremer> ... Jesse put on email
14:40:47 <eBremer> acoburn: any other items to go over?
14:41:26 <acoburn> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:41:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/30-lws-minutes.html acoburn
14:42:39 <acoburn> s/jesse:/jeswr:/
14:42:47 <acoburn> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:42:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/30-lws-minutes.html acoburn
14:43:14 <acoburn> s/jesse:/jeswr:/
14:43:34 <acoburn> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:43:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/30-lws-minutes.html acoburn
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