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11:57:01 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/06/30-data-shapes-irc
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11:57:06 <elianaP> RRSAgent, make logs public
11:57:29 <elianaP> Meeting: Data Shapes WG weekly teleconference
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12:00:38 <Robert> present+
12:00:51 <AndyS> present+
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12:01:11 <HolgerK> present+
12:01:36 <caribou> agenda: https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/blob/agenda/admin/agenda-2025-06-30.md
12:01:38 <agendabot> clear agenda
12:01:38 <agendabot> agenda+ Announcements
12:01:38 <agendabot> agenda+ Decisions
12:01:38 <agendabot> agenda+ Discussion
12:01:38 <agendabot> agenda+ Process
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12:02:01 <YoucTagh> present+
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12:02:05 <caribou> present+
12:02:05 <bergos> present+
12:02:28 <davidh> present+
12:02:42 <AndyS> zakim, open item 1
12:02:42 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Announcements -- taken up [from agendabot]
12:02:55 <AndyS> scribe+ mgberg
12:03:02 <caribou> zakim, take up agendum 3
12:03:02 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Discussion -- taken up [from agendabot]
12:03:28 <AndyS> https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/pull/408
12:03:50 <AndyS> scribe+
12:03:59 <AndyS> mgberg:  "Add sh:nodeByExpression Constraint Component"
12:04:48 <AndyS> ... provide a node expression to compute the node shapes to validate against
12:07:01 <AndyS> ... just using sh:node + expression does not work (because of blank nodes)
12:08:07 <AndyS> ... example UC -- data cube vocabulary
12:09:07 <AndyS> ... currently no good way to apply the constraints the focus nodes (current, 1.0 - it's clunky)
12:09:42 <TallTed> present+
12:09:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/30-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
12:10:21 <elianaP> q?
12:10:28 <AndyS> elianaP: questions?
12:10:37 <AndyS> ... (silence)
12:10:41 <AndyS> scribe-
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12:10:52 <ajnelson-nist> present+
12:11:08 <mgberg> scribe+
12:11:09 <TallTed> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/06/23-data-shapes-minutes.html
12:11:09 <TallTed> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/07/07-data-shapes-minutes.html
12:11:22 <AndyS> https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/pull/386 -- "Added script to sync Turtle & JSON-LD snippets"
12:12:21 <mgberg> ...script + changes required to allow the script to work
12:12:21 <AndyS> q+
12:12:42 <AndyS> q-
12:13:34 <mgberg> AndyS: someone mentioned doing the same for SHACL compact
12:15:41 <TallTed> chair: elianaP
12:15:55 <mgberg> bergos: Some work may be required to verify that the generated SHACL conforms to the examples
12:15:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/30-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
12:17:09 <mgberg> AndyS: SHACL-C generates SHACL RDF triples that are used for validation- same triples under the hood
12:17:31 <ajnelson-nist> q+
12:17:32 <AndyS> jeswr -- https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/issues/419
12:18:46 <ajnelson-nist> q-
12:19:39 <mgberg> AndyS: will follow up on the SHACL-C issue
12:20:01 <AndyS> https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/pull/409 -- "add severity levels that are not violations"
12:21:12 <ajnelson-nist> q+
12:21:18 <YoucTagh> q+
12:21:34 <mgberg> ...adds new severity levels, some are violating, some are not
12:21:47 <AndyS> ack YoucTagh
12:22:59 <mgberg> ...YoucTagh: Notes there are no examples of some of the severity levels, e.g. a developer use case
12:26:22 <mgberg> ...AndyS: suggests extending the test suite with extra examples, YoucTagh mentions that although useful users would likely not use the test suite
12:26:59 <AndyS> https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/pull/410 -- "add support for sh:TripleTerm to sh:nodeKind and allow lists"
12:27:07 <mgberg> ...ajnelson-nist: Suggests adding example of conforming debug result in the example
12:27:13 <ajnelson-nist> ack me
12:30:02 <ajnelson-nist> q+
12:30:19 <mgberg> ...open question- deprecate the OR variations of node kinds to support lists? How would that happen?
12:30:41 <HolgerK> q+
12:31:17 <AndyS> ack HolgerK
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12:32:36 <mgberg> ...HolgerK: Downsides to duplicate/redundant syntax, use cases for sh:TripleTerm or other types seem unlikely. Suggests not using OR lists and using prior convention
12:32:56 <AndyS> ack ajnelson-nist
12:33:20 <caribou> +1 to status quo unless we gather new use cases that really needs lists
12:33:24 <mgberg> ...ajnelson-nist: Agrees with above sentiment
12:33:27 <ajnelson-nist> ack me
12:35:19 <mgberg> ...bergos: at this point, the current clear use case is that RDF 1.2 triple terms are constructed as expected
12:35:54 <ajnelson-nist> Possible example - ?x ex:supports ?y - ?y a hypothetical statement, ex:supports in some ontology about citations?
12:37:48 <mgberg> ajnelson-nist: Potentially could use CiTO (https://sparontologies.github.io/cito/current/cito.html) as inspiration for the use case
12:40:17 <ajnelson-nist> ( Disclaimer: Participation by NIST in the creation of the documentation of mentioned software is not intended to imply a recommendation or endorsement by the National Institute of Standards and Technology, nor is it intended to imply that any specific software is necessarily the best available for the purpose. )
12:42:33 <ajnelson-nist> q+
12:43:13 <AndyS> ack ajnelson-nist
12:44:09 <bergos> q+
12:45:22 <AndyS> ack bergos
12:45:39 <mgberg> ...@bergos: Some additional complexity in the engine with OR, but may be simpler for users to pick one or more options from a list
12:46:06 <ajnelson-nist> q+
12:47:10 <mgberg> ...HolgerK: Some users will have algorithms that will need replacing, e.g. determining whether a shape represents an object property or a datatype property
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12:48:41 <ajnelson-nist> ack me
12:49:02 <AndyS> s/...HolgerK:/HolgerK:/
12:49:33 <ajnelson-nist> q+
12:49:39 <mgberg> USER: ajnelson-nist suggests redefining current IRIs as OR lists
12:49:42 <AndyS> s/...@bergos/bergos:/
12:49:59 <AndyS> s/USER: ajnelson-nist/ajnelson-nist/
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12:50:29 <mgberg> HolgerK: mentions that won't work as the sh:or predicate would have to be used instead
12:52:43 <bergos> q+
12:53:04 <mgberg> ...lists could include e.g. sh:BlankNodeOrIRI in the lists which could also add some additional confusion
12:53:48 <ajnelson-nist> ack me=
12:53:48 <bergos> ack me
12:53:51 <ajnelson-nist> ack me
12:54:53 <YoucTagh> https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/pull/390
12:55:22 <ajnelson-nist> https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/pull/362
12:55:24 <mgberg> HolgerK: PR with changes to test case namespaces has not been merged, but other PRs have been merged that modify test cases
12:57:14 <AndyS> zakim, end meeting
12:57:14 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Robert, AndyS, HolgerK, YoucTagh, caribou, bergos, davidh, TallTed, ajnelson-nist
12:57:16 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
12:57:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/30-data-shapes-minutes.html Zakim
12:57:23 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, AndyS; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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12:57:33 <AndyS> rrsagent, please leave us
12:57:33 <RRSAgent> I see no action items