13:03:42 RRSAgent has joined #wot-td 13:03:47 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/06/26-wot-td-irc 13:03:51 meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 2 13:03:56 dape has joined #wot-td 13:04:25 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Koster, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Daniel_Peintner 13:04:29 chair: Ege, Koster 13:05:40 present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima 13:05:59 Mizushima has joined #wot-td 13:06:19 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#June_25-26%2C_2025 13:06:28 scribe: dape 13:08:40 CA: Please add manageable action topic on the agenda please 13:08:52 MK: sure 13:09:04 TOPIC: Minutes 13:09:24 --> 18 June 2025 -> https://www.w3.org/2025/06/18-wot-td-minutes.html 13:10:29 MK: Any corrections? 13:10:39 ... none -> minutes approved 13:10:56 q+ 13:11:10 q- 13:11:31 TOPIC: Summer Schedule 13:12:01 MK: Any other vacations? 13:12:28 ... none 13:12:52 MK: Deliverable for first WD is important 13:13:05 ... what do we do about things that are work in progress 13:13:11 q? 13:13:25 EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td 13:13:25 ... we decided to publish WD within this charter period 13:13:32 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/2112 TD Issue 2112 - TD 2.0 FPWD Goal 13:13:38 s/Goal/Goals/ 13:13:43 rrsagent, make log public 13:13:46 q+ 13:13:47 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:13:49 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/26-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:13:56 ... how much of features in progress do we document 13:15:00 EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td 13:15:03 i|Please add|topic: Agenda| 13:15:03 MK: Binding part of TD might be far along 13:15:04 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:15:05 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/26-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:15:24 present+ Ege_Korkan 13:15:30 MK: I think we need to prioritize this work 13:15:56 q+ 13:15:56 CA: A short update about binding registry should be coming 13:16:04 ... not the whole mechanism 13:16:13 ... just put some text to explain the plan 13:16:38 present+ Mahda_Noura 13:16:41 MK: Right 13:16:52 MK: Did we decide on a date? 13:17:02 ... mid August / mid September ? 13:17:14 EK: 2 points 13:17:49 q+ 13:17:54 ... mechanism included in TD ... editorial work ... needs to be fixes 13:18:01 ... this is high priority.. 13:18:08 ... we also need to mention registry 13:18:11 ack c 13:18:54 ... w.r.t. dates.. i would say we have deadline a week before charter ends 13:19:00 ... latest date possible 13:19:21 q? 13:19:25 ack EgeKorkan 13:19:43 Kaz: we made basic resolution 13:19:58 ... fpwd ... end of October 13:20:09 ... what kind of content to be included 13:20:15 ... okay with date 13:20:23 ... need to think about content 13:20:49 q+ 13:20:51 q? 13:20:52 ... there is a possibility we could publish FPWD with content "as is" 13:20:54 ack k 13:21:05 EK: Date is fine 13:21:25 ... current ED is not ready to be published... I think 13:21:42 MK: Fixing description only? 13:21:50 EK: This is not the only thing... 13:22:01 ... we should have hints about new features .. 13:22:23 Kaz: Also fine 13:22:35 ... adding basic ideas and editors notes 13:22:40 q? 13:22:48 q? 13:23:12 EK: Question to Mahda about toolchain... 13:23:23 MK: Can be decided as we go 13:23:39 ... do we depend on toolchain 13:24:17 ack e 13:24:20 DP: I think the later we change toolchain the more complex it gets 13:24:48 CA: Big impact is initial connection 13:25:04 ... this topic is "on discussion" 13:25:36 ... there is strong dependency between toolchain and initial connection 13:25:48 MK: I see 13:26:01 EK: I don't think it will be ready 13:26:05 q+ 13:26:14 ... still put it in the spec with the "current" toolchain 13:26:25 CA: Means we need to do the work twice 13:26:27 EK: Yes 13:26:50 Kaz: In that case we need to identify when to use what 13:27:06 EK: For now we use "old" toolchain till new toolchain is ready 13:28:00 q? 13:28:03 q- 13:28:03 q+ 13:28:17 MK: We may need some toolchain features for Plugfest 13:28:25 q? 13:28:36 Kaz: okay with using current toolchain 13:28:50 ... we need to check which part is correct and synchronized 13:29:04 ... among various resources 13:29:13 EK: Yes 13:29:44 Kaz: Manuel checks might be needed 13:29:58 s/Manuel/Manual/ 13:30:15 q? 13:30:34 MK: We need to talk about scheduling 13:30:50 q+ 13:30:52 ... and look at checklist in https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/2112 13:31:25 EK: A question to group 13:31:41 ... anything needed for other task forces.. like scripting 13:31:49 CA: We tagged issues "wait for TD" 13:32:27 DP: topic "async actions" comes to my mind 13:33:06 MK: relates to manageable actions 13:33:18 DP: Yes .. many parts are underspecified 13:33:37 MK: We need to think prioritizing ... 13:33:51 ... we should start prototyping 13:34:18 EK: Availability of people during summer is important 13:34:27 q- 13:34:30 ack EgeKorkan 13:34:30 ack e 13:35:04 MK: we have 2 weeks in Juli and 2 weeks in August 13:35:07 q+ 13:35:24 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:35:26 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/26-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:35:58 DP: Beginning July to mid of July vacation 13:36:09 s/Juli/July/ 13:36:10 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:36:11 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/26-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:36:17 CA: 2 weeks in August 13:36:23 ... maybe 1 week in July 13:36:41 MK: leaves 2 weeks in July and 2 weeks in August to work 13:36:59 MN: Miss week 21st of July 13:37:07 ... Aug 11 also 13:37:19 TM: 1 week middle of August 13:38:00 EK: last 2 weeks in July/August everyone seems available 13:39:10 MK: w.r.t. data mapping we need to look into requirements 13:39:12 s/TM: 1 week middle of August/TM: 1 week end of August/ 13:39:22 ... the rest of the "goals" are fine scoped 13:39:31 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:39:32 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/26-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:39:51 EK: I think we should do the "same" for Binding registry 13:40:01 ... there are 2 PRs 13:40:41 TOPIC: Binding 13:40:49 SUPTOPIC: PR 10 13:40:56 MK: Any objections to merge this PR 13:41:08 ... no objections .. merging 13:41:15 SUPTOPIC: PR 11 13:41:15 i|PR 10|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-bindings-registry/issues/12 Registry Issue 12 - First Draft Registry Plan| 13:41:23 MK: is about abstract 13:41:46 i|Any obj|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-bindings-registry/pull/10 Registry PR 10 - refactor: initial setup taking over content from MD| 13:41:59 DP: Yes, abstract was taken from an existing abstract 13:42:08 MK: Any objections to merge this PR 11 13:42:08 q? 13:42:11 ack dape 13:42:16 i|s about|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-bindings-registry/pull/11 Registry PR 11 - Adding abstract| 13:42:22 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:42:23 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/26-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:42:29 MK: Merging ... 13:42:58 s/TOPIC: Binding/TOPIC: Bindings Registry/ 13:43:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:43:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/26-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:43:07 TOPIC: Manageable actions 13:43:27 CA: Look for technologies in area of async actions 13:43:47 ... we already have good use-case 13:44:25 ... Concepts of invoke, cancel, queuing 13:45:31 ... I have a rather long list of technologies 13:45:43 ... some technologies support async actions 13:45:58 ... and then observing property ... 13:46:14 ... I think those are not the right exanples.. 13:46:16 q? 13:46:19 i|Look for t|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/main/planning/work-items/analysis/analysis-manageable-affordances.md Manageable Affordances Analysis| 13:46:19 q+ 13:46:45 MK: We want to have something that has a better mechanism , right? 13:47:01 ... do we have to map to these protocols ? 13:47:23 CA: For now I am focusing on frameworks 13:47:31 ... still observing protocols 13:47:50 q+ 13:47:56 ... in AWS you can have async actions.. mapped to MQTT 13:48:02 ack mjk 13:48:24 ... in "Particol" they don't have these concept 13:48:41 ... interesting to know.. but I would like to leave those out 13:48:47 q+ 13:49:03 Kaz: Discussion is useful 13:49:34 ... Manageable affordance might be a bit vague 13:49:52 s/"Particol"/"Particle" 13:50:19 ... based on the issues we can create user stories 13:50:33 ... starting with those 4 pain points 13:50:56 CA: We have a bunch of user stories 13:50:58 qq+ 13:51:01 ... and we can move in parallel 13:51:02 q- 13:51:26 ... the name "manageable affordances" is very generic, right 13:51:32 .... maybe we can rename in future 13:51:47 ack dape 13:52:11 Kaz: manageable affordance would be broader than TD itself 13:52:26 ... management seems to much 13:52:49 ... I think we should be careful 13:53:11 CA: Sure, it is a broad scope 13:53:11 q+ 13:53:22 q- 13:53:40 CA: For now, I am just focusing on "async actions" 13:53:52 ... I hope till next week I have something to present 13:54:04 q+ 13:54:19 MK: Kaz, is it about the name and the implied scope ? 13:54:25 Kaz: Yes 13:54:32 MK: Pain points to broad also? 13:54:33 Kaz: Yes 13:54:52 MK: I think it is fine to focus on async actions 13:54:52 s/to broad/might be too broad/ 13:55:13 MK: we can narrow the scope to things we can tackle 13:55:48 ... there are uses besides "async actions" ... and we need to accommodate them also 13:56:04 CA: Creates more verbose TDs 13:56:17 ... including them as "bad" example ? 13:56:24 MK: Yes, maybe 13:56:48 ack mjk 13:56:55 Kaz: Echonet has own version of TD 13:57:15 ... has capabilities of grouping of actions and devices 13:57:30 ... we can look into their approach 13:57:30 CA: Yes 13:57:42 Kaz: Yes, we can import the approach 13:58:05 s/Yes/If their approach is good enough/ 13:58:05 MK: Dynamic nature is a breaking point 13:58:19 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:58:20 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/26-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:58:35 ... that's a fundamental issue 13:59:09 s/SUPTOPIC:/subtopic:/g 13:59:19 MK: We should look into prioritizing 13:59:43 MK: AOB ? 14:00:13 s/TOPIC: Manageable actions/subtopic: Manageable Affordances/ 14:00:14 ... good discussions today! 14:00:45 MK: BTW, Ege is on vacation next week 14:00:53 ... we start vacation season ;-) 14:00:56 [adjourned] 14:01:09 i/subtopic: Manageable Affordances/topic: Thing Description/ 14:01:12 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:01:13 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/26-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 15:04:12 zkis has joined #wot-td 16:03:18 Zakim has left #wot-td