13:56:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
13:56:23 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/06/26-wcag2ict-irc
13:56:23 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:56:24 <Zakim> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
13:56:28 <ChrisLoiselle> zakim, clear agenda
13:56:28 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:56:52 <ChrisLoiselle> chair:  Mary Jo Mueller
13:57:03 <ChrisLoiselle> chair: Mary Jo Mueller , Chris Loiselle
13:57:11 <ChrisLoiselle> meeting:  WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
13:57:21 <ChrisLoiselle> rrsagent, make minutes
13:57:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/26-wcag2ict-minutes.html ChrisLoiselle
13:57:59 <ChrisLoiselle> Zakim, please time speakers at 2 minutes
13:57:59 <Zakim> ok, ChrisLoiselle
13:58:14 <GreggVan> GreggVan has joined #wcag2ict
13:58:15 <ChrisLoiselle> agenda+ Announcements
13:58:34 <ChrisLoiselle> agenda+ PR proposal approvals (see work for the week for the list)
13:58:43 <maryjom> maryjom has joined #wcag2ict
13:59:16 <ChrisLoiselle> Scribe: ChrisLoiselle
13:59:20 <ChrisLoiselle> agenda?
14:00:57 <ChrisLoiselle> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/wiki/work-for-the-week
14:02:56 <ChrisLoiselle> agenda?
14:03:30 <loicmn> loicmn has joined #wcag2ict
14:03:40 <loicmn> present+
14:03:51 <ChrisLoiselle> zakim, take up next
14:03:51 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Announcements -- taken up [from ChrisLoiselle]
14:03:55 <Daniel> present+
14:04:20 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: EN 301 549 deadline for comments is today. ITI sent in comments.
14:05:37 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: There are number of issues opened in EN 301 with our labeling within GitHub space
14:05:45 <PhilDay> PhilDay has joined #wcag2ict
14:06:06 <ChrisLoiselle> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20label%3A%22EN%20301%20549%22
14:06:14 <PhilDay> present+
14:06:28 <ChrisLoiselle> ... We are working on through this and goal for today to get through these.
14:06:30 <ChrisLoiselle> Thoughts?
14:06:32 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
14:07:17 <PhilDay> +1 to harmonise with EN 301 549 & then publish consistent language
14:07:45 <ChrisLoiselle> Gregg: We want to harmonize so we aren't constantly going back and forth with updates.
14:08:31 <ChrisLoiselle> Gregg: Most important is that both docs agree.
14:08:33 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
14:09:02 <ChrisLoiselle> zakim, take up next
14:09:02 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- PR proposal approvals (see work for the week for the list) -- taken up [from ChrisLoiselle]
14:09:28 <maryjom> TOPIC: Issue 707 – Add in "non-web" where needed for consistency with the EN 301 549
14:09:46 <ChrisLoiselle> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/707
14:10:12 <maryjom> Link to PR 694: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/694
14:10:26 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Talks to issue and PR. Shares screen.
14:11:55 <Laura> Laura has joined #WCAG2ICT
14:12:00 <Laura> present+
14:12:01 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: shows diff on PR 694.  Ensuring non-web is used throughout , which is about 20 instances of that wording.
14:12:03 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
14:12:42 <Mike_Pluke> Mike_Pluke has joined #wcag2ict
14:12:50 <maryjom> DRAFT RESOLUTION: Add in “non_web” in front of “document” per PR 694 to make WCAG2ICT consistent with the EN 301 549
14:12:53 <Mike_Pluke> present+
14:12:58 <ChrisLoiselle> Gregg: Should we vote?
14:13:00 <loicmn> +1
14:13:02 <PhilDay> +1
14:13:03 <ChrisLoiselle> +1
14:13:05 <GreggVan> +1
14:13:19 <Mike_Pluke> +1
14:13:34 <Laura> +1
14:13:40 <GreggVan> present+
14:13:43 <maryjom> RESOLUTION: Add in “non-web” in front of “document” per PR 694 to make WCAG2ICT consistent with the EN 301 549
14:13:47 <Daniel> s/non_web/non-web/
14:14:06 <maryjom> TOPIC: Issue 691 - Differences between 2.1.1 keyboard guidance in WCAG2ICT and EN 301 549 content in clause 11.2.1.1 Keyboard
14:14:40 <maryjom> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/691
14:15:10 <ChrisLoiselle> Issue https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/691 shared on screen
14:15:25 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: No PR as of yet to showcase.
14:15:56 <maryjom> Note 1 in WCAG2ICT for 2.1.1: Middle sentence says: Platform software may provide a ‘keyboard interface’ that software can read instead of reading any keyboard hardware directly.
14:16:18 <maryjom> EN's version of that sentence: Platform software may provide device independent input services to applications that enable operation via a keyboard interface.
14:17:06 <Mike_Pluke> Q+
14:17:08 <ChrisLoiselle> Gregg: reads through content provided.
14:17:11 <maryjom> ack Mike_Pluke
14:17:42 <ChrisLoiselle> Mike P: I think we added the words because of keyboard interface in quotes. Leaves it what keyboard interface is in the note.
14:17:43 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
14:18:13 <ChrisLoiselle> Mike P: Says same thing but making a bit clearer.
14:18:22 <Mike_Pluke> Q-
14:18:54 <ChrisLoiselle> Gregg: We could take quotes off the keyboard interface wording.
14:19:27 <ChrisLoiselle> Mike P: I think most would think of physical keyboard for keyboard interface.
14:20:23 <maryjom> device independent input services to applications so that software can read instead of reading any keyboard hardware directly
14:20:51 <maryjom> device independent input services to applications so that software can read instead of reading any keyboard hardware directly
14:21:00 <loicmn> device independent input services to applications so that software can use these services instead of reading any keyboard hardware directly
14:21:08 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
14:21:18 <Mike_Pluke> +1
14:21:42 <ChrisLoiselle> Mike : I like what Loic presents.
14:21:43 <ChrisLoiselle> Q?
14:22:11 <ChrisLoiselle> Mike P: You could put keyboard interface in brackets after if you'd like.
14:22:47 <Mike_Pluke> e.g. device independent input services to applications (keyboard interface) so that software can use these services instead of reading any keyboard hardware directly
14:23:21 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: I'd like a proposal for next week so we can have a PR to review.
14:24:15 <GreggVan> It also allows the application to received keystrokes from multiple sources (alternate keyboards) from one place.
14:24:52 <PhilDay> I don't like the "device independent input services" portion - I think it overcomplicates.
14:24:52 <PhilDay> Using EN and cleaning up the middle sentence we could have something like the following:
14:24:53 <PhilDay> EN 301 549's Note 1 which changes the middle sentence:
14:24:53 <PhilDay> Note 1 (Added): Keyboard interface does not refer to a physical device but to the interface between the software and any keyboard or keyboard substitute (i.e., the interface where the software accepts text or other keystroke input from the platform which may come from a keyboard or from a keyboard alternative). Such an interface may provide input
14:24:53 <PhilDay> services to applications that enable operation via a keyboard interface. When software supports such a device-independent service of the platform, and the software or non-web document functionality is made fully operable through the service, then this success criterion would be satisfied.
14:24:55 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
14:25:00 <PhilDay> q+
14:25:47 <ChrisLoiselle> Phil: The device intendent part may be difficult to parse. Propose rephrasing that part of text.
14:26:17 <ChrisLoiselle> Gregg: Reads more as test vs. note.
14:26:18 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
14:26:48 <ChrisLoiselle> Phil : Second sentence may not be needed is what I was proposing.
14:26:48 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
14:26:59 <maryjom> ack PhilDay
14:27:18 <ChrisLoiselle> Gregg: You have the keyboard alternative, which is good. I like Phil's.
14:27:27 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
14:27:34 <LauraM> LauraM has joined #WCAG2ICT
14:28:58 <ChrisLoiselle> Gregg: Problem could be service of platform and there could be ten interfaces.   Gregg to wordsmith.
14:29:46 <maryjom> Keyboard interface does not refer to a physical device but to the interface between the software and any keyboard or keyboard substitute (i.e., the interface where the software accepts text or other keystroke input from the platform's device independent input services which may come from a keyboard or from a keyboard alternative).
14:30:04 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: pastes in her comment.
14:30:05 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
14:30:06 <PhilDay> +1 to Mary Jo's addition
14:30:22 <GreggVan> Note 1 (Added): Keyboard interface does not refer to a physical device but to the interface provided by the platform to provide the software with keystrokes from all keyboards or keyboard substitutes (i.e., the interface where the software accepts text or other keystroke input from the platform which may come from a keyboard or from a keyboard alternative). Such an interface may provide input services to applications that enable operation via
14:30:22 <GreggVan>  a keyboard interface. When software supports such a device-independent service of the platform, and the software or non-web document functionality is made fully operable through the service, then this success criterion would be satisfied.
14:30:36 <ChrisLoiselle> Gregg: Pastes in his proposal.
14:31:14 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
14:31:43 <GreggVan> Note 1 (Added): Keyboard interface does not refer to a physical device but to the platform service that  provides software with keystrokes from all keyboards or keyboard substitutes (i.e., the interface where the software accepts text or other keystroke input from the platform which may come from a keyboard or from a keyboard alternative). Such an interface may provide input services to applications that enable operation via
14:31:43 <GreggVan> [07:30:22]  <GreggVan>  a keyboard interface. When software supports such a device-independent service of the platform, and the software or non-web document func
14:31:47 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Asks Gregg to help wordsmith in issue
14:32:10 <ChrisLoiselle> issue, https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/691
14:32:25 <LauraM> LauraM has joined #WCAG2ICT
14:32:51 <LauraM> Is there any way to view the recent scribed notes?
14:32:56 <LauraM> I disconnected.
14:33:08 <maryjom> rrsagent, make minutes
14:33:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/26-wcag2ict-minutes.html maryjom
14:33:51 <maryjom> TOPIC: Issue 695 - 1.4.10 Reflow: Note 7 applies to non-web documents and to software but is listed under non-web software parenthetic
14:34:02 <maryjom> Link to issue 695: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/695
14:34:09 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/695
14:35:37 <GreggVan>  Note 1 (Added): Keyboard interface does not refer to a physical device but to the platform service that  provides software with keystrokes from all keyboards or keyboard substitutes. When software supports such a device-independent service of the platform, and the software or non-web document functionality is made fully operable through the service, then this success criterion would be satisfied.
14:35:58 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Relates to 2013 version and reflow , non-web software and note 7 references non-web documents OR software
14:36:55 <ChrisLoiselle> We either update the first two paragraphs of note 7 and copy in to a non-web document note that we add.
14:37:09 <ChrisLoiselle> Other option is to move BEFORE the split as it applies to both.
14:37:17 <ChrisLoiselle> It is a preference edit.
14:37:29 <ChrisLoiselle> Gregg: I would recommend breaking off and adding.
14:38:28 <ChrisLoiselle> Gregg: First two paragraphs to be moved would be recommended.
14:38:29 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
14:38:46 <maryjom> DRAFT RESOLUTION: For 1.4.10 Reflow, implement proposal 1 in Issue 695, as-is
14:38:50 <loicmn> +1
14:38:53 <ChrisLoiselle> +1
14:38:58 <LauraM> +1
14:39:02 <Mike_Pluke> +1
14:39:19 <PhilDay> +1
14:39:23 <GreggVan> +1
14:39:24 <maryjom> RESOLUTION: For 1.4.10 Reflow, implement proposal 1 in Issue 695, as-is
14:40:10 <maryjom> TOPIC: Issue 692 - 2.1.1 Keyboard - notes seem to only apply to software but not noted that way
14:40:19 <GreggVan> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/691
14:40:24 <ChrisLoiselle> Gregg: I put draft note in the keyboard interface note, if we want to come back to that.
14:40:32 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
14:40:49 <maryjom> Link to issue 692: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/692
14:41:02 <maryjom> Link to PR 703: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/703
14:41:52 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: I wanted to look through those EN issues so that we could go through the notes.
14:41:53 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
14:44:25 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: shows 1.3.1 , I feel these are software ones. Adding paran for non-web software above the note
14:44:38 <Daniel> q+
14:45:26 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: 1.4.12 , note 2 is only non-web software , note 3 is both
14:45:57 <ChrisLoiselle> note 4, only non-web software
14:47:44 <ChrisLoiselle> 2.1.1 , all three notes are non-web software only
14:47:52 <Daniel> q?
14:48:40 <PhilDay> q+
14:48:45 <ChrisLoiselle> Daniel: We have to address the parens we use throughout the document vs. heading structure.
14:49:10 <ChrisLoiselle> Gregg: On the Note 1 (ADDED) type of format?
14:49:33 <ChrisLoiselle> Daniel: They aren't showcasing as headings on respec. Editorial change.
14:50:09 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: We were talking to headings on document , Bruce was working on that I believe.
14:50:21 <PhilDay> ack me
14:50:26 <ChrisLoiselle> Gregg: It should be marked up per what it looks like.
14:51:03 <Daniel> AGree, once we get the technical aspects sorted out we can apply whatever editorial/scripting updates
14:51:21 <Daniel> s/updates/updates safely/
14:51:28 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: 2.1.2, Note 1 is both, note 2 both, note 3, only in non-web software. note 4, only in non-web software.
14:51:29 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
14:51:38 <Daniel> ack me
14:52:38 <ChrisLoiselle> 2.1.4, note 1, is non-web software only.
14:52:54 <ChrisLoiselle> note 2 is non-web software only.
14:53:27 <ChrisLoiselle> 2.4.4 , note 1 , non-web software only , same for note 2.
14:54:27 <ChrisLoiselle> 2.4.6 , non-web software only
14:55:10 <ChrisLoiselle> 3.1.1, non-web software only
14:56:11 <ChrisLoiselle> 3.3.8, notes 3 and 4 non-web only, same for 5
14:57:46 <ChrisLoiselle> 4.1.2 , non-web software for note 1, 2, 4. For note 3, non-web document only.
14:58:12 <ChrisLoiselle> rrsagent, make minutes
14:58:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/26-wcag2ict-minutes.html ChrisLoiselle
14:59:14 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: For 4.1.2, use standard way to do what you are marking up.
14:59:19 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
14:59:39 <maryjom> DRAFT RESOLUTION: Incorporate the proposed changes from PR 703 to be clear about what notes are only for non-web documents or only for non-web software, as-is
14:59:44 <loicmn> +1
14:59:58 <ChrisLoiselle> +1
15:00:18 <PhilDay> +1
15:00:21 <GreggVan> +1
15:00:39 <Mike_Pluke> +1
15:00:52 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Please review others still in table to add to discussion, 702 and 704 for example.
15:01:00 <ChrisLoiselle> Need decisions on those topics.
15:01:42 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Do we want to have extra meeting?
15:02:53 <ChrisLoiselle> Need to harmonize.
15:03:30 <ChrisLoiselle> I need to drop, apologies !
15:03:31 <ChrisLoiselle> rrsagent, make minutes
15:03:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/26-wcag2ict-minutes.html ChrisLoiselle
15:04:03 <PhilDay> I need to drop - sorry
15:04:15 <Daniel> Spetially for folks involved in both EN 301 549 and WCAG2ICT work
15:04:26 <Daniel> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:04:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/26-wcag2ict-minutes.html Daniel
15:07:57 <maryjom> zakim, end meeting
15:07:57 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been loicmn, Daniel, PhilDay, Laura, Mike_Pluke, GreggVan
15:07:59 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
15:08:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/26-wcag2ict-minutes.html Zakim
15:08:07 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, maryjom; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:08:07 <maryjom> present+
15:08:07 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag2ict
15:08:26 <maryjom> rrsagent, make minutes
15:08:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/26-wcag2ict-minutes.html maryjom
15:30:28 <maryjom> rrsagent, bye
15:30:28 <RRSAgent> I see no action items