11:54:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
11:55:02 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/06/25-apa-irc
11:55:02 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
11:55:03 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), matatk
11:55:08 <matatk> regrets+ Jenifer_Strickland
11:55:12 <matatk> chair: Matthew
11:55:20 <matatk> meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference
11:56:45 <matatk> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
11:56:45 <matatk> agenda+ APA re-charter
11:56:45 <matatk> agenda+ TPAC 2025
11:56:45 <matatk> agenda+ Horizontal Review process update
11:56:46 <matatk> agenda+ New on TR
11:56:46 <matatk> agenda+ Charter review requests
11:56:46 <matatk> agenda+ Spec review requests
11:56:47 <matatk> agenda+ Comment review requests
11:56:47 <matatk> agenda+ CSS Update (Paul)
11:56:47 <matatk> agenda+ Actions check-in
11:56:57 <matatk> agenda+ Other business
11:56:57 <matatk> agenda+ Be done
11:56:57 <matatk> agenda?
12:18:22 <matatk> regrets+ Gautier_Chomel
12:18:30 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
12:18:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/25-apa-minutes.html matatk
12:35:43 <janina> zakim, end meeting
12:35:45 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been (no one)
12:35:45 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
12:35:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/25-apa-minutes.html Zakim
12:35:52 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, janina; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
12:35:54 <Zakim> Zakim has left #apa
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12:36:09 <janina> zakim, start meeting
12:36:09 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:36:11 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
12:36:24 <janina> Meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference
12:36:28 <janina> Date: 25 Jun 2025
12:36:33 <janina> Chair: Matthew
12:36:41 <janina> Chair: Matatk
12:36:52 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
12:36:52 <janina> agenda+ APA re-charter
12:36:52 <janina> agenda+ TPAC 2025
12:36:52 <janina> agenda+ Horizontal Review process update
12:36:52 <janina> agenda+ New on TR
12:36:54 <janina> agenda+ Charter review requests
12:36:57 <janina> agenda+ [Spec review requests](https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues)
12:36:59 <janina> agenda+ [Comment review requests](https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review)
12:37:02 <janina> agenda+ [CSS Update (Paul)](https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues)
12:37:05 <janina> agenda+. Actions check-in
12:37:07 <janina> agenda+. Other business
12:37:10 <janina> agenda+. Be done
12:51:00 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #APA
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12:55:21 <janina>  /join #rqtf
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13:56:03 <janina> present+
13:56:10 <janina> zakim, who's here?
13:56:10 <Zakim> Present: janina
13:56:12 <Zakim> On IRC I see kirkwood, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, slightlyoff, Roy_Ruoxi, vmpstr, alastairc, gb, hdv, chrishtr, Rachael, tink, jyasskin, ada, jcraig
13:56:20 <janina> agenda?
13:58:02 <janina> regrets: Jennifer_Strickland, Gautier_Chomel
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14:00:43 <mike_beganyi> scribe+
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14:01:46 <matatk> agenda?
14:02:09 <Fazio> present+
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14:02:40 <niklasegger> present+
14:03:28 <mike_beganyi> zakim, take up item 1
14:03:28 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
14:03:28 <matatk> present+
14:04:14 <mike_beganyi> janina: A bit of buzz regarding AI agent that is frontending various kinds of purchases.
14:04:18 <janina> https://innosearch.ai/
14:04:25 <Neha> Neha has joined #apa
14:04:31 <Demelza> Demelza has joined #apa
14:04:41 <Demelza> present +
14:04:58 <mike_beganyi> janina: Tries to stick to the essentials and avoid the ancillary distracting and complicating things people often complain about
14:05:07 <mike_beganyi> q+
14:05:16 <matatk> scribe+
14:05:25 <matatk> ack mike_beganyi
14:05:28 <Neha> present+
14:06:08 <matatk> scribe-
14:06:13 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:06:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/25-apa-minutes.html matatk
14:06:33 <mike_beganyi> janina: It's a personal agent, but wouldn't call it an overlay
14:07:12 <mike_beganyi> Fredrik: Could we discuss this at a point?
14:07:24 <mike_beganyi> janina: RQTF will discuss around accessibility of AI.
14:08:10 <mike_beganyi> matatk: If it's going to, we should post to APA in case anyone can attend that RQTF meeting and contribute
14:08:42 <mike_beganyi> Fazio: It sounds a lot like an overlay, but it gives that impression that it is that kind of technology. Worth exploring.
14:08:55 <matatk> subtopic: WebExtensions WG (to be?)
14:08:57 <matatk> https://github.com/w3c/webextensions/blob/main/_minutes/2025-03-27-berlin-f2f.md#wg-discussion
14:09:19 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Is a community group called Web Extensions which is about browser extensions
14:09:32 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Mostly followed by the schema put in place by Chrome
14:10:04 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Parts of extensions get access to privileged APIs.
14:10:40 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Other parts exist in the browser process and don't interfere with the page's DOM but can access APIs (open sidebars, change keyboard shortcuts, open settings, etc.)
14:11:50 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Community group exists to keep as much harmony as possible within the model of extensions. Several issues that affect everyone who writes and consumes extensions. This group is doing a lot of work to make things viable and uniform and solve these issues.
14:12:21 <Fredrik> Any chance that one could tweak Cisco by calling it the Webex WG?
14:13:05 <mike_beganyi> matatk: We were approached by Simeon (Mozilla dev). Asked APA about becoming a WG. Not sure we'll need an official liaison between the two groups.
14:13:52 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Wanted to highlight this and encourage questions and concerns
14:14:07 <mike_beganyi> janina: A gracious response, Matthew. We care a lot about extensions but it's worth thinking about a liaison.
14:14:36 <matatk> q?
14:14:41 <mike_beganyi> zakim, take up next item
14:14:41 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- APA re-charter -- taken up [from janina]
14:14:51 <matatk> https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/498#issuecomment-2996613966
14:15:19 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Some questions about process documents, are we going to work on them. Discussed with Roy last week. Roy has responded and making appropriate changes.
14:15:23 <Roy_Ruoxi> q+
14:15:36 <JonCohn> JonCohn has joined #APA
14:15:39 <matatk> ack Roy_Ruoxi
14:15:55 <JonCohn> present+
14:16:21 <mike_beganyi> Roy_Ruoxi: W3C review has finished. I started request for review. Sorting out logistics for this process. Things will start from tomorrow for the AC review.
14:16:27 <mike_beganyi> Roy_Ruoxi: Will require at least 28 days
14:17:37 <matatk> q?
14:17:41 <mike_beganyi> zakim, take up next item
14:17:41 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- TPAC 2025 -- taken up [from janina]
14:18:19 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Confirm that we put in requests for lots of meetings with specific groups. All have been received. Scheduling team is hard at work to organize.
14:19:24 <PaulG> present+
14:19:41 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Breakouts yet to be scheduled.
14:19:57 <matatk> q?
14:20:09 <mike_beganyi> q+
14:20:50 <mike_beganyi> mike_beganyi: funding opportunities?
14:21:02 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Fee waivers for invited experts in the past
14:21:30 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Been long-term request to provide funding for IEs that people could apply for. Being looked into, but no status update at the moment.
14:22:00 <mike_beganyi> janina: Recent years there has been some funding. Presume it'll be made available again. This year is more challenging due to location.
14:22:18 <mike_beganyi> Fredrik: Last year there was something e-mailed out in that respect
14:22:34 <mike_beganyi> Fazio: Closer to TPAC will be sent out via e-mail
14:22:40 <mike_beganyi> zakim, take up next item
14:22:40 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, mike_beganyi
14:22:44 <mike_beganyi> ack me
14:22:47 <mike_beganyi> zakim, take up next item
14:22:47 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Horizontal Review process update -- taken up [from janina]
14:24:27 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Updates for carrying out reviews.
14:25:09 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Available information on the Wiki. Will be sent to the list at the end of the meeting.
14:25:25 <mike_beganyi> matatk: [summarizes wiki page and changes]
14:31:21 <matatk> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Horizontal_Review#For_Specifications_2
14:31:31 <mike_beganyi> zakim, take up next item
14:31:31 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- New on TR -- taken up [from janina]
14:31:44 <mike_beganyi> Roy_Ruoxi: Nothing this week.
14:32:01 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close this item
14:32:01 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
14:32:02 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:32:02 <Zakim> 6. Charter review requests [from janina]
14:32:04 <mike_beganyi> zakim, take up next item
14:32:04 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Charter review requests -- taken up [from janina]
14:32:19 <mike_beganyi> Roy_Ruoxi: Nothing this week.
14:32:20 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close this item
14:32:20 <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
14:32:21 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:32:21 <Zakim> 7. [Spec review requests](https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues) [from janina]
14:32:22 <mike_beganyi> zakim, take up next item
14:32:23 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- [Spec review requests](https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues) -- taken up [from janina]
14:32:50 <mike_beganyi> matatk: A couple of issues here. Will signpost them.
14:33:11 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Point Jennifer made regarding changes to CSS interactivity property and it has a value of inert
14:33:37 <mike_beganyi> matatk: All part of wider project in CSS seeking to make it easier for web devs to make carousels.
14:34:38 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Two design reviews from the TAG. Agree with Jennifer's concern. Some of the inert stuff we're more concerned about has been paused.
14:34:51 <matatk> q?
14:35:28 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Second item is web neural networks API. Filed comments we had last week into one big issue (which we won't do anymore). Were two extra things about this. We could make these comments as separate issues.
14:36:20 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Could easily propose a comment in APA repository to file as an issue on that spec. Paul's question of adding things to the accessibility considerations section of specs.
14:37:15 <mike_beganyi> zakim, take up item 9
14:37:15 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- [CSS Update (Paul)](https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues) -- taken up [from janina]
14:37:50 <matatk> subtopic: Scroll markers
14:37:53 <PaulG> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/12122
14:38:31 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: Scroll markers want to add roles to something. Consult the examples on MDN it's all carousels.
14:39:06 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: What they're adding is tab or link as an implicit role in the scroll marker.
14:39:40 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: This is strange. Developers without context won't get the deeper concerns of this method.
14:39:51 <matatk> q+
14:40:21 <matatk> ack me
14:40:27 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Is there a reliable way for the browser to know which elements are being presented with various roles via CSS?
14:40:43 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: CSS is providing the "target" and that's what's making the difference for interpretation.
14:41:18 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: Should look at prototypes and then raise concerns
14:41:52 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: It's not always there. They have to pick it and discern the best option.
14:42:13 <mike_beganyi> matatk: What about the behaviour? Some of CSS stuff imparts behaviour, like keyboard handling.
14:42:35 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: Not sure this is clear in the proposal. As they're prototyping maybe this will come up
14:43:36 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Odd that you would get behaviour out of CSS as opposed to custom elements. CSS does behaviour now? Huh?
14:43:52 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: Seems they're trying to stretch the function of CSS
14:44:13 <matatk> q?
14:44:27 <matatk> subtopic: Animation Trigger
14:44:31 <PaulG> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/12119
14:45:18 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: Has to do with parallax scrolling techniques and make these more native without relying on JS. Animation triggers to have play and pause with scrolling intent. Trying to figure out API
14:45:50 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: Making this native doesn't seem like the best plan as some users will have negative reactions to this for various reasons, disability included.
14:46:12 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: This can be done today, but not with CSS alone.
14:46:51 <mike_beganyi> matatk: This also seems concerning.
14:48:02 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Will see if CSS and a11y folks on TAG are aware of it and how to respond.
14:48:31 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: I'm more concerned about pointer than I am about scroll.
14:49:06 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: A couple of methods in scroll to mitigate this, but pointer...so many people have fine motor issues and this could cause significant challenge
14:50:34 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Does this need to be separate or can we keep it in Prefers Reduced Motion
14:50:48 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: Could be in Preferred but it could be its own thing.
14:51:20 <mike_beganyi> zakim, take up item 8
14:51:20 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- [Comment review requests](https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review) -- taken up [from janina]
14:52:24 <matatk> subtopic: Canvas Text Metrics for Editing, Art and Design
14:52:24 <matatk> source: w3ctag/design-reviews#1095
14:52:24 <matatk> tracking: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-review/issues/233
14:52:46 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Came to the TAG as a design review. Early proposal.
14:53:06 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Allows layout of text on a canvas that follows a particular path.
14:53:58 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Concern is about the accessible fallback. How do you get access to that text if it's important? Currently, the only way is to provide canvas fallback via the canvas element. Could be part of Accessibility Object Model in future
14:54:40 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Has been some discussion on the topic. Worth investigating and leave a comment.
14:55:07 <mike_beganyi> looks cool
14:55:08 <matatk> q?
14:55:18 <mike_beganyi> zakim, end meeting
14:55:18 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been janina, Fazio, niklasegger, matatk, Neha, JonCohn, PaulG
14:55:21 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:55:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/25-apa-minutes.html Zakim
14:55:28 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, mike_beganyi; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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