16:55:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
16:55:14 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/06/19-aria-irc
16:55:14 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:55:15 <Zakim> Meeting: ARIA WG
16:55:23 <jamesn> agendabot, find agenda
16:55:23 <agendabot> jamesn, OK. This may take a minute...
16:55:23 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/5a155237-d896-464b-9c5f-6dd1654293ae/20250619T130000/
16:55:23 <agendabot> clear agenda
16:55:23 <agendabot> agenda+ Should we meet on July 3, 2025
16:55:24 <agendabot> agenda+ -> WPT Open PRs https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y
16:55:26 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates
16:55:29 <agendabot> agenda+ FYI Future TPACs: Kobe, Japan - Nov 10-14, 2025, Dublin, Ireland - 26-30 Oct, 2026
16:55:32 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New board(s) https://github.com/w3c/aria/projects?query=is%3Aopen
16:55:34 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New PR Triage https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+created%3A%3E%3D2025-06-12+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria&type=Issues
16:55:38 <agendabot> agenda+ Find reviewers for stuck things
16:56:06 <filippo-zorzi> filippo-zorzi has joined #aria
16:57:29 <spectranaut_> spectranaut_ has joined #aria
16:58:23 <spectranaut_> zakim, leave
16:58:23 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria
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16:58:36 <spectranaut_> zakim, start meeting
16:58:36 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:58:38 <Zakim> Meeting: ARIA WG
16:58:44 <spectranaut_> chair: ValerieYoung
16:58:48 <spectranaut_> agendabot, find agenda
16:58:48 <agendabot> spectranaut_, OK. This may take a minute...
16:58:48 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/5a155237-d896-464b-9c5f-6dd1654293ae/20250619T130000/
16:58:48 <agendabot> clear agenda
16:58:48 <agendabot> agenda+ Should we meet on July 3, 2025
16:58:49 <agendabot> agenda+ -> WPT Open PRs https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y
16:58:51 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates
16:58:54 <agendabot> agenda+ FYI Future TPACs: Kobe, Japan - Nov 10-14, 2025, Dublin, Ireland - 26-30 Oct, 2026
16:58:57 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New board(s) https://github.com/w3c/aria/projects?query=is%3Aopen
16:58:59 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New PR Triage https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+created%3A%3E%3D2025-06-12+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria&type=Issues
16:59:03 <agendabot> agenda+ Find reviewers for stuck things
16:59:32 <Adam_Page> Adam_Page has joined #aria
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17:01:07 <filippo-zorzi> present+
17:04:05 <pkra> pkra has joined #aria
17:04:07 <Adam_Page> scribe: Adam_Page
17:04:14 <pkra> present+
17:04:17 <Adam_Page> present+
17:04:27 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
17:04:27 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Should we meet on July 3, 2025 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:04:31 <giacomo-petri> giacomo-petri has joined #aria
17:04:40 <ChrisCuellar> present+
17:04:40 <giacomo-petri> present+
17:04:49 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: should we meet?
17:04:57 <Adam_Page> ... Daniel is running the meeting next week
17:04:58 <front-endian-jane> front-endian-jane has joined #aria
17:05:04 <Adam_Page> ... and the week after that is the day before a U.S. holiday
17:05:15 <Adam_Page> ... but many people might be taking that day off
17:05:46 <Adam_Page> ... do people want a meeting?
17:05:58 <Adam_Page> ... no one else is out, so we’ll keep it
17:06:18 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
17:06:18 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- -> WPT Open PRs https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:06:38 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: skipping new issue triage, we’ll do next week
17:06:46 <Adam_Page> ... but nothing new for open WPT PRs, so we’ll skip
17:07:05 <Adam_Page> pkra: there was an issue filed coming out of Jamie Teh’s question about case insensitivity
17:07:14 <Adam_Page> ... Rahim filed an issue
17:07:18 <Adam_Page> ... our issue is 2548
17:07:42 <pkra> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2548
17:07:47 <pkra> https://github.com/web-platform-tests/interop-accessibility/issues/192
17:08:00 <Adam_Page> ... Jamie found a crash in Firefox
17:08:07 <Adam_Page> ... and he asked whether they’re supposed to be insensitive
17:08:20 <Adam_Page> ... Rahim said we should have tests for that
17:08:28 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: we’ll talk about this issue next week in triage
17:08:45 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
17:08:45 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:09:00 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: there is a deep dive planned for July 17
17:09:11 <Adam_Page> ... computed roles for tables run by keithamus
17:09:17 <Adam_Page> ... anything else? no
17:09:17 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
17:09:17 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, Adam_Page
17:09:23 <Adam_Page> zakim, close this item
17:09:23 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
17:09:24 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:09:24 <Zakim> 4. FYI Future TPACs: Kobe, Japan - Nov 10-14, 2025, Dublin, Ireland - 26-30 Oct, 2026 [from agendabot]
17:09:27 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
17:09:27 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- FYI Future TPACs: Kobe, Japan - Nov 10-14, 2025, Dublin, Ireland - 26-30 Oct, 2026 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:09:50 <Adam_Page> jamesn: 2026 has been announced
17:09:56 <Adam_Page> ... notably not in the U.S.
17:11:07 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
17:11:07 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- -> New board(s) https://github.com/w3c/aria/projects?query=is%3Aopen -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:11:48 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: we made 2 kanban boards by popular demand
17:11:50 <cyns> cyns has joined #aria
17:11:53 <Adam_Page> ... ARIA Normative PR Tracking
17:12:00 <Adam_Page> ... and ARIA Editorial PR Tracking
17:12:22 <Adam_Page> ... the PRs in each following two different processes
17:12:24 <fromt-endian-jane> fromt-endian-jane has joined #aria
17:12:31 <Adam_Page> s/following/follow/
17:13:08 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: the columns are Draft → Needs Review → Needs update from review → Reviewed, need PR checklist items
17:13:17 <Adam_Page> ... there are currently 5 PRs in Needs Review
17:13:29 <Adam_Page> pkra: one observation
17:13:36 <fromt-endian-jane> present+
17:13:49 <Adam_Page> ... you can go to the View 1 tab and open its menu
17:14:01 <Adam_Page> ... you can add labels by going through Fields
17:14:05 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: this is great
17:14:24 <Adam_Page> pkra: all the boards are set to Private — is that intentional?
17:14:35 <Adam_Page> Daniel: that’s a W3 default, I‘ll update these
17:14:51 <Adam_Page> s/W3/W3C/
17:15:31 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: jamesn and I will make sure every PR is in a board
17:15:46 <Adam_Page> ... in an appropriate spot
17:15:46 <Adam_Page> ... then the Normative PR tracking board
17:16:13 <Adam_Page> ... and the columns are Draft → Needs Review → Needs updates from review → Reviewed, other needs → Waiting for Implementation
17:16:25 <Adam_Page> ... any comments or questions?
17:16:39 <Adam_Page> pkra: it’s very good, thank you
17:17:21 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
17:17:21 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- -> New PR Triage https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+created%3A%3E%3D2025-06-12+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria&type=Issues -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:17:30 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: no new PRs
17:17:46 <Adam_Page> ... except for pkra, which we already merged — thank you
17:17:51 <Adam_Page> zakim, close this item
17:17:51 <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
17:17:52 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
17:17:52 <Zakim> 7. Find reviewers for stuck things [from agendabot]
17:17:56 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
17:17:56 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- Find reviewers for stuck things -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:18:08 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: one nice thing about these new boards is we can see where our changes get stuck
17:18:22 <Adam_Page> ... in Normative, by far, most things get stuck in Needs Review
17:18:52 <Adam_Page> ... so one thing that jamesn and I discussed when we made board is that we should have mechanism for replacing idle reviewer after N days
17:19:03 <Adam_Page> ... or re-raising it to unblock it
17:20:17 <Adam_Page> pkra: looking at a few that caught my eye
17:20:22 <Adam_Page> ... we have quite a few old PRs
17:20:33 <Adam_Page> ... that might just need a rebase
17:20:36 <Adam_Page> ... to get things moving again
17:20:44 <Adam_Page> ... almost like “good first issue”
17:21:03 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: right, a new adoptive parent
17:21:46 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: let’s look at some of these oldest Needs Review PRs
17:21:57 <spectranaut_> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2237
17:22:18 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: doesn’t have any reviews
17:22:29 <Adam_Page> ... some discussion about rebasing
17:24:43 <Adam_Page> frontendian-Jane: I’ll take this one
17:24:57 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: will you confirm whether it’s actually normative?
17:25:26 <spectranaut_> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2245
17:26:05 <front-endian-jane> front-endian-jane has joined #aria
17:26:25 <Adam_Page> s/frontendian-Jane/front-endian-jane/
17:26:45 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: added `needs ACT review` label
17:27:00 <Adam_Page> ... would be good to have a positive review on the PR
17:27:23 <Adam_Page> giacomo-petri: I’ll approve it
17:27:32 <Adam_Page> pkra: I’ll review
17:27:46 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: great, then with ACT review we can move it along
17:27:59 <Daniel> present+
17:28:11 <spectranaut_> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2292
17:29:14 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: reviewers aren’t on the call today, so we’ll ping later
17:29:30 <Adam_Page> giacomo-petri: I think some changes are required on this one
17:32:31 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: let’s not move forward on this one right now
17:33:18 <Adam_Page> ... https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2344
17:33:20 <Adam_Page> needs implementation consensus
17:33:45 <spectranaut_> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2339
17:34:28 <Adam_Page> ... I’ll assign this one to Rahim
17:34:41 <Adam_Page> pkra: this is one of the PRs I couldn’t move over during the monorepo merge
17:34:47 <Adam_Page> ... so Rahim manually redid it
17:35:01 <Adam_Page> ... ah I see, it was originally done by someone else
17:36:15 <Adam_Page> ... need to resolve a question from Firefox
17:36:45 <Adam_Page> s/... ah I see, it was originally done by someone else/spectranaut: ... ah I see, it was originally done by someone else/
17:36:51 <spectranaut_> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2373
17:36:53 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_ moving on to next issue
17:37:14 <Adam_Page> ... we have one positive review
17:37:46 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: I had offered to review this one so I will do it
17:38:39 <Adam_Page> Adam_Page: I’ll review it too
17:38:58 <spectranaut_> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2360
17:40:08 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: there are implementors, so it likely needs implementation changes
17:40:17 <Adam_Page> ... I’ll confirm with Scott
17:42:04 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2365
17:42:09 <Adam_Page> ... this is another change for implementors
17:42:13 <Adam_Page> ... need their review
17:42:24 <spectranaut_> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2369
17:42:44 <Adam_Page> ... a lot of reviewers on this one
17:42:49 <Adam_Page> ... another change coming from HTML
17:43:25 <Adam_Page> giacomo-petri: I’ll review this
17:43:57 <spectranaut_> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2390
17:44:02 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: this has 2 positive reviews
17:44:43 <Adam_Page> ... think this just needs 1 more review
17:44:56 <Adam_Page> front-endian-jane: I’ll review
17:45:26 <spectranaut_> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2383
17:45:46 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: yes, we talked a lot about this
17:46:22 <Adam_Page> ... still needs some resolution
17:46:37 <Adam_Page> ... I’ll ping the participants
17:47:35 <spectranaut_> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2533
17:47:46 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: core-aam change
17:47:48 <Adam_Page> ... I’ll review and land it
17:48:06 <spectranaut_> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2526
17:48:22 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: I’ll ping Rahim on this
17:48:47 <spectranaut_> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2504
17:49:09 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: 2 approving reviews
17:49:49 <Adam_Page> ... looks like this is ready to land, just need to confirm with jcraig
17:50:01 <spectranaut_> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2484
17:50:25 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: let’s skip this one
17:51:08 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2483
17:51:14 <Adam_Page> pkra: this an interesting one, needs discussion
17:52:32 <Adam_Page> ... there are complex scoping implications
17:52:43 <Adam_Page> ... this is a glaring example
17:52:55 <Adam_Page> ... the `group` role
17:53:27 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: we’ll discuss next week since it’s agenda’d
17:54:15 <spectranaut_> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2418
17:54:33 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: this is a SHOULD
17:55:14 <Adam_Page> ... needs 1 more reviewer
17:55:54 <Adam_Page> pkra: we may need to change “parent” to “ancestor”?
17:56:42 <Adam_Page> ... this relates back to aria#2483
17:57:02 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: once we resolve that issue, there may be many instances like this to refactor
17:57:08 <Adam_Page> ... so maybe we can still merge this one in anticipation of that
17:57:16 <Adam_Page> pkra: does it need ACT review?
17:57:25 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: it’s not necessarily a validation issue
17:57:46 <Adam_Page> jamesn: the reason why it’s SHOULD is often UAs introduce singletons
17:57:46 <Adam_Page> ... add the parent, then close the parent
17:57:51 <Adam_Page> ... not sure there’s consistent behavior
17:58:11 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: surprising that this is not already in the spec
17:58:55 <Adam_Page> ... it sounds like we have consensus on this
17:58:59 <Adam_Page> ... I’m inclined to land it
17:59:14 <Adam_Page> jamesn: I’ve approved it
17:59:18 <Adam_Page> ... but there are conflicts
18:00:31 <Adam_Page> zakim, end meeting
18:00:31 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been filippo-zorzi, pkra, Adam_Page, ChrisCuellar, giacomo-petri, fromt-endian-jane, Daniel
18:00:31 <spectranaut_> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:00:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/19-aria-minutes.html spectranaut_
18:00:39 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
18:00:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/19-aria-minutes.html Zakim
18:00:45 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Adam_Page; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
18:00:45 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria