IRC log of tt on 2025-06-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/06/05-tt-irc
15:00:52 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
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Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
15:01:05 [nigel]
Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/308
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scribe: nigel
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Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/05/22-tt-minutes.html
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scribe+ cpn
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Present: Andreas, Nigel, Chris, Cyril, Pierre
15:01:44 [nigel]
Chair: Nigel
15:02:02 [nigel]
rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/05-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:02:13 [nigel]
Present+ Atsushi
15:02:44 [nigel]
Present+ Matt_Simpson
15:03:08 [nigel]
Topic: This meeting
15:04:12 [cpn]
Nigel: [reviews the agenda]
15:04:29 [nigel]
Present+ Gary
15:04:35 [nigel]
Chair: Nigel, Gary
15:05:09 [cpn]
Nigel: Any other business or points to raise within the agenda item?
15:05:16 [cpn]
s/item/items/
15:05:19 [cpn]
(nothing)
15:05:35 [nigel]
Topic: Apply streamlined publication to all of Note track documents
15:05:57 [cpn]
Nigel: I think we're only waiting on tt-profile registry. Atsushi, how is this looking?
15:06:16 [cpn]
Atsushi: I opened a PR
15:06:46 [nigel]
-> https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry tt-profile-registry repo
15:07:02 [cpn]
... We're in streamlined publication already for png-hdr-in-pr, and I've opened PRs for the other Note track documents
15:07:23 [cpn]
Nigel: Any objections to going ahead and merging?
15:07:27 [nigel]
-> https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/85 PR to add streamlined publication to TTML Profile Registry
15:07:35 [cpn]
(none)
15:08:10 [cpn]
Nigel: Atsushi, do you want to merge?
15:08:18 [cpn]
Atsushi: I'll recheck it
15:09:12 [nigel]
-> https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/timed-text/publications/#note TTWG Notes
15:09:29 [nigel]
Topic: DAPT
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15:10:05 [cpn]
Nigel: I don't think I've seen any updates on the test suite issues. Cyril, you said you'd hoped to review some of them
15:10:40 [cpn]
Cyril: I had an early look, also asked a colleague. I have feedback on script represents that I haven't had chance to input on yet
15:10:42 [nigel]
i/Nigel: I/Subtopic: Test Suite
15:10:54 [cpn]
... There should be a test for the linear whitespace syntax
15:11:08 [cpn]
... I intend to add a comment about that
15:11:23 [cpn]
... That's the only feedback for now
15:12:05 [nigel]
Subtopic: Pull requests
15:12:31 [nigel]
-> https://github.com/w3c/dapt/pull/294 Explicitly permit daptm:represents on tt, body, div, p and span #294
15:13:15 [cpn]
Andreas: I had a quick check. It seems there's a source issue, but this was a while ago so need to check again
15:13:37 [cpn]
Nigel: As far as I know this is the last substantive issue we plan to make a change for
15:14:09 [cpn]
... Once we've done this we should request a new CR snapshot, which will trigger another 60 day exclusion period
15:14:26 [cpn]
... Anything else on DAPT?
15:14:31 [cpn]
(nothing)
15:14:36 [nigel]
Topic: IMSC 1.3
15:14:54 [nigel]
s/Topic: IMSC 1.3//
15:15:40 [cpn]
Cyril: Netflix wants to create some content, to demonstrate DAPT, give real world examples people can refer to. Are the W3C repos available?
15:16:21 [cpn]
Nigel: I think a Netflix repo makes sense here, we could link to it from the test repo. Would that work?
15:16:48 [cpn]
Cyril: I think so. But in other cases like AOM we've shared in their repos, so wanted to check what to do here
15:17:13 [cpn]
Atsushi: We could accept examples in the test repo, things that aren't mandatory in the tests
15:17:43 [cpn]
Nigel: Yes, in an examples folder, and mentioned in the ReadMe
15:18:15 [cpn]
Cyril, what would the license for these be?
15:18:24 [cpn]
s/Cyril/... Cyril/
15:18:42 [cpn]
Cyril: Creative Commons non-commercial, sharealike, or somesuch
15:19:21 [cpn]
Atsushi: An example could be more complex than typical tests to show real world usage, so can be valuable
15:19:54 [cpn]
Cyril: The test report is about testing the formal features of DAPT, but the examples I have include proprietary or dummy metadata from Netflix which wouldn't be tested per se
15:20:23 [cpn]
Nigel: There is an issue for a test that includes proprietary metadata, where the implementation is supposed to say it's valid
15:20:55 [cpn]
Cyril: Similarly, if we want an IMSC example of showing how to generate subtitles from DAPT
15:21:16 [cpn]
... We could also have GitHub submodules in a Netflix repo
15:21:55 [cpn]
Nigel: I'm happy with Atsushi's suggestion to have examples in the test suite, it makes them easier for people to find if they're in one place
15:22:05 [cpn]
Cyril: Any restrictions on the license?
15:22:15 [cpn]
Nigel: Would the W3C Software License work?
15:23:05 [nigel]
-> IMSC Test suite licence https://github.com/w3c/imsc-tests?tab=License-1-ov-file#readme
15:23:52 [cpn]
Atsushi: It should be fine to apply an open source license, as the test repo isn't an official W3C spec repo
15:24:20 [cpn]
Nigel: The IMSC content is dual licensed under BSD 3 clause and W3C Software License, so you can choose
15:25:32 [cpn]
Nigel: Cyril and Atsushi, please check on the licenses
15:25:58 [cpn]
Atsushi: I believe many WGs use other licenses like MIT or Creative Commons for examples
15:26:22 [cpn]
Pierre: https://github.com/w3c/IMSC-1.1_Text_TestContent
15:26:44 [cpn]
... This is under a BSD 3 Clause License, so that's possible
15:26:45 [nigel]
-> https://github.com/w3c/IMSC-1.1_Text_TestContent?tab=BSD-3-Clause-1-ov-file#readme IMSC-1.1_Text_TestContent (BSD 3 clause licence)
15:27:11 [cpn]
Cyril: Was that required to be BSD?
15:27:27 [atsushi]
https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/blob/master/LICENSE.md
15:27:32 [cpn]
Pierre: No, it was offered to W3C and they accepted it. So I suggest doing that here
15:28:18 [cpn]
Atsushi: The Web Platform Tests uses the BSD 3 Clause license, so I believe there's no strict requirements for tests and examples for W3C
15:29:06 [cpn]
... WebXR has an examples repo that uses MIT license
15:29:35 [cpn]
Nigel: I think it's up to Netflix to determine which license they're happy with
15:29:41 [cpn]
Cyril: I'll get back to you
15:29:47 [nigel]
Topic: IMSC 1.3
15:30:13 [cpn]
Nigel: The PR preview isn't working!
15:30:30 [cpn]
Can someone look at it?
15:30:35 [cpn]
s/Can/... Can/
15:31:21 [cpn]
Atsushi: I'll check it later
15:31:46 [cpn]
Nigel: Are we ready for FPWD publication?
15:32:06 [cpn]
Pierre: Nearly, I think we should allow until the end of the month at most to make a decision on whether to remove the image profile
15:32:53 [cpn]
Nigel: On 24 April we said we'd consider any liaison responses
15:33:19 [cpn]
... We have a response from EBU. No concern raised about dropping image profile. Is that the same for you, Pierre?
15:34:01 [cpn]
Pierre: Yes, maybe some potential use. But any potential user would have feedback on the PNG version. I haven't had feedback saying people want to use it or improvements they want to see
15:34:14 [cpn]
Nigel: Has anyone else heard views?
15:34:18 [cpn]
(nothing)
15:34:58 [cpn]
Nigel: The EBU response said they don't use image profile, and no members use it in their operations
15:35:18 [cpn]
... They said it would be useful to include DAPT metadata in IMSC documents
15:35:30 [cpn]
... I need to analyse it, but I think it can just be done
15:35:56 [cpn]
... It's foreign to IMSC, so IMSC already allows that
15:36:19 [cpn]
... Might be useful to have an informative section in DAPT and IMSC 1.3 to give an example
15:37:22 [cpn]
... So we have a decision to make about dropping image profile. We've done the outreach, not heard anyone request it. Pierre created a PR
15:38:33 [cpn]
Pierre: My concerns are with alt text, this was permitted with IMSC 1.1 and 1.2, but the alt text is there to support image, it would be weird to keep that in text profile if the main application is actually image
15:38:35 [nigel]
q+
15:39:04 [cpn]
... It would be the first time prohibiting a feature previously allowed so now IMSC 1.3 wouldn't be a strict superset
15:39:42 [cpn]
... We might find lots of nits in the spec on removing image profile
15:39:45 [nigel]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc1.2/#ittm-altText imsc1.2 ittm:altText
15:39:47 [nigel]
ack n
15:40:13 [cpn]
Nigel: [Reads the ]altText section in IMSC1.2]
15:40:25 [cpn]
... That suggests to me there may be a use for doing it for text
15:40:42 [cpn]
... I might suggest a quite strict approach, choose one of two things
15:41:13 [cpn]
... Either keep it as is in 1.3, or we say it's a breaking change and so we need a semantic version upgrade to 2.0
15:41:58 [cpn]
Pierre: Would be fine if we limited to that, but worry about other deprecated things
15:42:09 [cpn]
Nigel: I was only thinking of that one
15:42:43 [cpn]
Nigel: A major version change could allow us to remove other permitted deprecated things
15:43:27 [cpn]
Pierre: Most of the text of the feature will be gone. If we ever need to review image profile, we'll need to revise that text again
15:43:45 [cpn]
... The description of the feature would be much shorter, as most of it is focused on alternate text for img
15:44:13 [cpn]
Nigel: The other permitted deprecated things are in text profile: Z-index, aspect ratio, and progressively decodable
15:44:23 [cpn]
... We might end up breaking existing documents
15:44:32 [cpn]
Pierre: And inadvertently, that's the issue I see
15:44:38 [cpn]
... I'll add it back
15:45:00 [cpn]
... I'll do another editorial pass, then will be ready for a CfC for FPWD
15:45:22 [cpn]
Nigel: I haven't finished looking through it yet, so will finalise my review
15:46:01 [cpn]
Nigel: Any other comments?
15:46:07 [cpn]
(nothing)
15:47:16 [nigel]
PROPOSAL: Remove Image Profile from IMSC 1.3
15:48:31 [nigel]
PROPOSAL: Remove Image Profile from IMSC 1.3 and create an IMSC 1.3 Text Profile as a standalone document
15:49:36 [nigel]
i/P/Pierre: I'm thinking of this as publishing a new version that's only a text profile
15:49:51 [nigel]
i/P/Nigel: Okay, I'll modify the proposal:
15:50:24 [cpn]
Nigel: Is everyone OK with this?
15:50:34 [cpn]
Pierre: Thanks to everyone getting the feedback
15:50:46 [nigel]
Topic: TPAC 2025 Planning
15:51:12 [cpn]
Gary: I haven't spent much time on this
15:52:07 [cpn]
Nigel: Last meeting we said do similar to last year. There was discussion in MEIG too.
15:52:42 [nigel]
Chris: Nothing changes - still thinking of a joint meeting on the Monday with APA perhaps later
15:52:50 [nigel]
.. in the week but we haven't discussed with APA.
15:53:05 [nigel]
.. I'm wondering whether this group would want to meet later in the week or if we could get all
15:53:21 [nigel]
.. our business done on the Monday and Tuesday and then we could try to fit APA in on the Monday/Tuesday
15:53:36 [nigel]
.. schedule. I don't know what APA will be able to accommodate, or if they have their own plan.
15:54:05 [nigel]
Nigel: Sounds like an action for Chairs - should I get in touch with the APA Chairs (Matt and Janina)
15:54:17 [nigel]
Chris: Good idea, start a thread between you and me and them.
15:54:27 [nigel]
Nigel: And Gary of course!
15:54:50 [nigel]
Gary: The GitHub issue is relatively minimal because there are only 4 slots to request / say is acceptable per day.
15:55:01 [nigel]
.. The CSS WG said they wanted 8 slots and they're all good.
15:55:16 [nigel]
.. We can also say we'd like all our slots on one day and not overlap with MEIG and Media WG
15:55:45 [nigel]
Nigel: Do we also ask for joint meetings?
15:55:52 [nigel]
Gary: Yes we can ask for that too.
15:56:03 [nigel]
.. Once the issue is created we can add comments if we get more information
15:56:30 [nigel]
.. They want us to do this as soon as possible but before the 20th, but if we need to we will have
15:56:36 [nigel]
.. one more meeting scheduled before the deadline.
15:57:20 [cpn]
Nigel: I propose we open the issue, ask for 2 slots on Monday and Tuesday, and say we don't mind which slots, avoid overlap with MEIG and Media WG, then update the issue after we've talked with APA
15:57:42 [nigel]
Chris: Only 2 slots?
15:57:48 [nigel]
Nigel: How long are the slots?
15:57:50 [nigel]
Chris: 90 minutes
15:57:57 [nigel]
Nigel: Oh, then 4 then!
15:58:00 [nigel]
Gary: Some are 2 hours
15:58:10 [nigel]
Chris: You don't know what you'll get unless you're very specific
15:58:25 [nigel]
Gary: We can ask for 4 slots and say it would be nice not to be split across multiple days
15:58:29 [nigel]
Chris: Yes
15:59:45 [cpn]
GaryL I might not be there in person, so a morning slot is better for people in the US
15:59:57 [cpn]
s/GaryL/Gary:/
16:00:26 [cpn]
... Timing would be 7 or 8pm east coast, 4 or 5pm west coast
16:00:42 [cpn]
... It'll be standard time in US again
16:01:52 [cpn]
Chris: So select early slots only or run the meeting all day?
16:02:27 [cpn]
Gary: Request early slots on Monday and Tuesday and we can adjust agenda topics to fit
16:02:58 [cpn]
Topic: AOB
16:03:06 [cpn]
Nigel: We're now under our new charter
16:03:58 [nigel]
-> https://www.w3.org/2025/06/timed-text-wg-charter.html 2025-06-03 TTWG Charter
16:04:07 [nigel]
Topic: Meeting close
16:04:30 [nigel]
Nigel: Thanks everyone, we're slightly over time, let's adjourn. See you in 2 weeks.
16:04:46 [nigel]
-> 2025-06-19 agenda https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/309
16:04:51 [nigel]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:04:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/05-tt-minutes.html nigel
16:07:30 [nigel]
s/TTWG Notes/Published TTWG Notes
16:09:06 [nigel]
s/IMSC content is dual licensed under BSD 3 clause and W3C Software License/IMSC content is dual licensed under BSD 3 clause and W3C Test Suite License
16:09:35 [nigel]
s/which license they/which licence they
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s/3 Clause license/3 Clause licence
16:09:59 [nigel]
s/3 Clause License/3 Clause Licence
16:10:09 [nigel]
s/other licenses like/other licences like
16:10:31 [nigel]
s/license/licence/g
16:10:37 [nigel]
s/License/Licence/g
16:11:15 [nigel]
s/image profile/Image Profile/g
16:11:30 [nigel]
s/text profile/Text Profile/g
16:11:53 [nigel]
s/[Reads the ]altText /[Reads the altText
16:13:13 [nigel]
s/Is everyone OK with this?/Is everyone OK with this approach? I will highlight it as a CfC in the minutes.
16:13:39 [nigel]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:13:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/05-tt-minutes.html nigel
16:16:45 [nigel]
s/altTextsection/ittm:altText section
16:16:47 [nigel]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:16:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/05-tt-minutes.html nigel
16:17:31 [nigel]
scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
16:17:52 [nigel]
zakim, end meeting
16:17:52 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Andreas, Nigel, Chris, Cyril, Pierre, Atsushi, Matt_Simpson, Gary
16:17:52 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
16:17:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/05-tt-minutes.html Zakim
16:18:00 [Zakim]
I am happy to have been of service, nigel; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
16:18:00 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #tt
16:18:07 [nigel]
rrsagent, excuse us
16:18:07 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items