15:00:47 RRSAgent has joined #tt 15:00:52 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/06/05-tt-irc 15:00:52 RRSAgent, make logs Public 15:00:53 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 15:01:05 Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/308 15:01:09 scribe: nigel 15:01:17 cpn has joined #tt 15:01:24 Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/05/22-tt-minutes.html 15:01:29 scribe+ cpn 15:01:40 Present: Andreas, Nigel, Chris, Cyril, Pierre 15:01:44 Chair: Nigel 15:02:02 rrsagent, make minutes 15:02:04 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/05-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:02:13 Present+ Atsushi 15:02:44 Present+ Matt_Simpson 15:03:08 Topic: This meeting 15:04:12 Nigel: [reviews the agenda] 15:04:29 Present+ Gary 15:04:35 Chair: Nigel, Gary 15:05:09 Nigel: Any other business or points to raise within the agenda item? 15:05:16 s/item/items/ 15:05:19 (nothing) 15:05:35 Topic: Apply streamlined publication to all of Note track documents 15:05:57 Nigel: I think we're only waiting on tt-profile registry. Atsushi, how is this looking? 15:06:16 Atsushi: I opened a PR 15:06:46 -> https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry tt-profile-registry repo 15:07:02 ... We're in streamlined publication already for png-hdr-in-pr, and I've opened PRs for the other Note track documents 15:07:23 Nigel: Any objections to going ahead and merging? 15:07:27 -> https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/85 PR to add streamlined publication to TTML Profile Registry 15:07:35 (none) 15:08:10 Nigel: Atsushi, do you want to merge? 15:08:18 Atsushi: I'll recheck it 15:09:12 -> https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/timed-text/publications/#note TTWG Notes 15:09:29 Topic: DAPT 15:09:33 pal has joined #tt 15:10:05 Nigel: I don't think I've seen any updates on the test suite issues. Cyril, you said you'd hoped to review some of them 15:10:40 Cyril: I had an early look, also asked a colleague. I have feedback on script represents that I haven't had chance to input on yet 15:10:42 i/Nigel: I/Subtopic: Test Suite 15:10:54 ... There should be a test for the linear whitespace syntax 15:11:08 ... I intend to add a comment about that 15:11:23 ... That's the only feedback for now 15:12:05 Subtopic: Pull requests 15:12:31 -> https://github.com/w3c/dapt/pull/294 Explicitly permit daptm:represents on tt, body, div, p and span #294 15:13:15 Andreas: I had a quick check. It seems there's a source issue, but this was a while ago so need to check again 15:13:37 Nigel: As far as I know this is the last substantive issue we plan to make a change for 15:14:09 ... Once we've done this we should request a new CR snapshot, which will trigger another 60 day exclusion period 15:14:26 ... Anything else on DAPT? 15:14:31 (nothing) 15:14:36 Topic: IMSC 1.3 15:14:54 s/Topic: IMSC 1.3// 15:15:40 Cyril: Netflix wants to create some content, to demonstrate DAPT, give real world examples people can refer to. Are the W3C repos available? 15:16:21 Nigel: I think a Netflix repo makes sense here, we could link to it from the test repo. Would that work? 15:16:48 Cyril: I think so. But in other cases like AOM we've shared in their repos, so wanted to check what to do here 15:17:13 Atsushi: We could accept examples in the test repo, things that aren't mandatory in the tests 15:17:43 Nigel: Yes, in an examples folder, and mentioned in the ReadMe 15:18:15 Cyril, what would the license for these be? 15:18:24 s/Cyril/... Cyril/ 15:18:42 Cyril: Creative Commons non-commercial, sharealike, or somesuch 15:19:21 Atsushi: An example could be more complex than typical tests to show real world usage, so can be valuable 15:19:54 Cyril: The test report is about testing the formal features of DAPT, but the examples I have include proprietary or dummy metadata from Netflix which wouldn't be tested per se 15:20:23 Nigel: There is an issue for a test that includes proprietary metadata, where the implementation is supposed to say it's valid 15:20:55 Cyril: Similarly, if we want an IMSC example of showing how to generate subtitles from DAPT 15:21:16 ... We could also have GitHub submodules in a Netflix repo 15:21:55 Nigel: I'm happy with Atsushi's suggestion to have examples in the test suite, it makes them easier for people to find if they're in one place 15:22:05 Cyril: Any restrictions on the license? 15:22:15 Nigel: Would the W3C Software License work? 15:23:05 -> IMSC Test suite licence https://github.com/w3c/imsc-tests?tab=License-1-ov-file#readme 15:23:52 Atsushi: It should be fine to apply an open source license, as the test repo isn't an official W3C spec repo 15:24:20 Nigel: The IMSC content is dual licensed under BSD 3 clause and W3C Software License, so you can choose 15:25:32 Nigel: Cyril and Atsushi, please check on the licenses 15:25:58 Atsushi: I believe many WGs use other licenses like MIT or Creative Commons for examples 15:26:22 Pierre: https://github.com/w3c/IMSC-1.1_Text_TestContent 15:26:44 ... This is under a BSD 3 Clause License, so that's possible 15:26:45 -> https://github.com/w3c/IMSC-1.1_Text_TestContent?tab=BSD-3-Clause-1-ov-file#readme IMSC-1.1_Text_TestContent (BSD 3 clause licence) 15:27:11 Cyril: Was that required to be BSD? 15:27:27 https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/blob/master/LICENSE.md 15:27:32 Pierre: No, it was offered to W3C and they accepted it. So I suggest doing that here 15:28:18 Atsushi: The Web Platform Tests uses the BSD 3 Clause license, so I believe there's no strict requirements for tests and examples for W3C 15:29:06 ... WebXR has an examples repo that uses MIT license 15:29:35 Nigel: I think it's up to Netflix to determine which license they're happy with 15:29:41 Cyril: I'll get back to you 15:29:47 Topic: IMSC 1.3 15:30:13 Nigel: The PR preview isn't working! 15:30:30 Can someone look at it? 15:30:35 s/Can/... Can/ 15:31:21 Atsushi: I'll check it later 15:31:46 Nigel: Are we ready for FPWD publication? 15:32:06 Pierre: Nearly, I think we should allow until the end of the month at most to make a decision on whether to remove the image profile 15:32:53 Nigel: On 24 April we said we'd consider any liaison responses 15:33:19 ... We have a response from EBU. No concern raised about dropping image profile. Is that the same for you, Pierre? 15:34:01 Pierre: Yes, maybe some potential use. But any potential user would have feedback on the PNG version. I haven't had feedback saying people want to use it or improvements they want to see 15:34:14 Nigel: Has anyone else heard views? 15:34:18 (nothing) 15:34:58 Nigel: The EBU response said they don't use image profile, and no members use it in their operations 15:35:18 ... They said it would be useful to include DAPT metadata in IMSC documents 15:35:30 ... I need to analyse it, but I think it can just be done 15:35:56 ... It's foreign to IMSC, so IMSC already allows that 15:36:19 ... Might be useful to have an informative section in DAPT and IMSC 1.3 to give an example 15:37:22 ... So we have a decision to make about dropping image profile. We've done the outreach, not heard anyone request it. Pierre created a PR 15:38:33 Pierre: My concerns are with alt text, this was permitted with IMSC 1.1 and 1.2, but the alt text is there to support image, it would be weird to keep that in text profile if the main application is actually image 15:38:35 q+ 15:39:04 ... It would be the first time prohibiting a feature previously allowed so now IMSC 1.3 wouldn't be a strict superset 15:39:42 ... We might find lots of nits in the spec on removing image profile 15:39:45 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc1.2/#ittm-altText imsc1.2 ittm:altText 15:39:47 ack n 15:40:13 Nigel: [Reads the ]altText section in IMSC1.2] 15:40:25 ... That suggests to me there may be a use for doing it for text 15:40:42 ... I might suggest a quite strict approach, choose one of two things 15:41:13 ... Either keep it as is in 1.3, or we say it's a breaking change and so we need a semantic version upgrade to 2.0 15:41:58 Pierre: Would be fine if we limited to that, but worry about other deprecated things 15:42:09 Nigel: I was only thinking of that one 15:42:43 Nigel: A major version change could allow us to remove other permitted deprecated things 15:43:27 Pierre: Most of the text of the feature will be gone. If we ever need to review image profile, we'll need to revise that text again 15:43:45 ... The description of the feature would be much shorter, as most of it is focused on alternate text for img 15:44:13 Nigel: The other permitted deprecated things are in text profile: Z-index, aspect ratio, and progressively decodable 15:44:23 ... We might end up breaking existing documents 15:44:32 Pierre: And inadvertently, that's the issue I see 15:44:38 ... I'll add it back 15:45:00 ... I'll do another editorial pass, then will be ready for a CfC for FPWD 15:45:22 Nigel: I haven't finished looking through it yet, so will finalise my review 15:46:01 Nigel: Any other comments? 15:46:07 (nothing) 15:47:16 PROPOSAL: Remove Image Profile from IMSC 1.3 15:48:31 PROPOSAL: Remove Image Profile from IMSC 1.3 and create an IMSC 1.3 Text Profile as a standalone document 15:49:36 i/P/Pierre: I'm thinking of this as publishing a new version that's only a text profile 15:49:51 i/P/Nigel: Okay, I'll modify the proposal: 15:50:24 Nigel: Is everyone OK with this? 15:50:34 Pierre: Thanks to everyone getting the feedback 15:50:46 Topic: TPAC 2025 Planning 15:51:12 Gary: I haven't spent much time on this 15:52:07 Nigel: Last meeting we said do similar to last year. There was discussion in MEIG too. 15:52:42 Chris: Nothing changes - still thinking of a joint meeting on the Monday with APA perhaps later 15:52:50 .. in the week but we haven't discussed with APA. 15:53:05 .. I'm wondering whether this group would want to meet later in the week or if we could get all 15:53:21 .. our business done on the Monday and Tuesday and then we could try to fit APA in on the Monday/Tuesday 15:53:36 .. schedule. I don't know what APA will be able to accommodate, or if they have their own plan. 15:54:05 Nigel: Sounds like an action for Chairs - should I get in touch with the APA Chairs (Matt and Janina) 15:54:17 Chris: Good idea, start a thread between you and me and them. 15:54:27 Nigel: And Gary of course! 15:54:50 Gary: The GitHub issue is relatively minimal because there are only 4 slots to request / say is acceptable per day. 15:55:01 .. The CSS WG said they wanted 8 slots and they're all good. 15:55:16 .. We can also say we'd like all our slots on one day and not overlap with MEIG and Media WG 15:55:45 Nigel: Do we also ask for joint meetings? 15:55:52 Gary: Yes we can ask for that too. 15:56:03 .. Once the issue is created we can add comments if we get more information 15:56:30 .. They want us to do this as soon as possible but before the 20th, but if we need to we will have 15:56:36 .. one more meeting scheduled before the deadline. 15:57:20 Nigel: I propose we open the issue, ask for 2 slots on Monday and Tuesday, and say we don't mind which slots, avoid overlap with MEIG and Media WG, then update the issue after we've talked with APA 15:57:42 Chris: Only 2 slots? 15:57:48 Nigel: How long are the slots? 15:57:50 Chris: 90 minutes 15:57:57 Nigel: Oh, then 4 then! 15:58:00 Gary: Some are 2 hours 15:58:10 Chris: You don't know what you'll get unless you're very specific 15:58:25 Gary: We can ask for 4 slots and say it would be nice not to be split across multiple days 15:58:29 Chris: Yes 15:59:45 GaryL I might not be there in person, so a morning slot is better for people in the US 15:59:57 s/GaryL/Gary:/ 16:00:26 ... Timing would be 7 or 8pm east coast, 4 or 5pm west coast 16:00:42 ... It'll be standard time in US again 16:01:52 Chris: So select early slots only or run the meeting all day? 16:02:27 Gary: Request early slots on Monday and Tuesday and we can adjust agenda topics to fit 16:02:58 Topic: AOB 16:03:06 Nigel: We're now under our new charter 16:03:58 -> https://www.w3.org/2025/06/timed-text-wg-charter.html 2025-06-03 TTWG Charter 16:04:07 Topic: Meeting close 16:04:30 Nigel: Thanks everyone, we're slightly over time, let's adjourn. See you in 2 weeks. 16:04:46 -> 2025-06-19 agenda https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/309 16:04:51 rrsagent, make minutes 16:04:52 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/05-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:07:30 s/TTWG Notes/Published TTWG Notes 16:09:06 s/IMSC content is dual licensed under BSD 3 clause and W3C Software License/IMSC content is dual licensed under BSD 3 clause and W3C Test Suite License 16:09:35 s/which license they/which licence they 16:09:47 s/3 Clause license/3 Clause licence 16:09:59 s/3 Clause License/3 Clause Licence 16:10:09 s/other licenses like/other licences like 16:10:31 s/license/licence/g 16:10:37 s/License/Licence/g 16:11:15 s/image profile/Image Profile/g 16:11:30 s/text profile/Text Profile/g 16:11:53 s/[Reads the ]altText /[Reads the altText 16:13:13 s/Is everyone OK with this?/Is everyone OK with this approach? I will highlight it as a CfC in the minutes. 16:13:39 rrsagent, make minutes 16:13:40 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/05-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:16:45 s/altTextsection/ittm:altText section 16:16:47 rrsagent, make minutes 16:16:48 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/05-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:17:31 scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 16:17:52 zakim, end meeting 16:17:52 As of this point the attendees have been Andreas, Nigel, Chris, Cyril, Pierre, Atsushi, Matt_Simpson, Gary 16:17:52 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 16:17:53 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/05-tt-minutes.html Zakim 16:18:00 I am happy to have been of service, nigel; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 16:18:00 Zakim has left #tt 16:18:07 rrsagent, excuse us 16:18:07 I see no action items