12:01:25 RRSAgent has joined #wot 12:01:29 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/06/04-wot-irc 12:01:36 meeting: WoT-WG/IG 12:01:58 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan 12:02:05 present+ Michael_McCool 12:02:29 present+ Josh_Thomas 12:03:26 Mizushima has joined #wot 12:03:33 dezell has joined #wot 12:03:42 rrsagent, make log public 12:03:44 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:03:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/04-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:03:52 present+ David_Ezell 12:04:06 present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima 12:04:18 chair: Koster, Sebastian 12:04:42 present+ Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Koster, Sebastian_Kaebisch 12:04:44 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:04:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/04-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:04:51 sebastian7 has joined #wot 12:08:09 scribenick: EgeKorkan 12:08:54 q+ 12:09:02 topic: IEs 12:09:19 mk: We have two IE requests and also Mahmood Afshari is being evaluated 12:09:23 q- 12:09:26 kaz: I will contact them 12:09:32 topic: Minutes 12:09:42 -> https://www.w3.org/2025/05/28-wot-minutes.html May-28 12:10:09 mk: any changes? 12:10:34 ... approved 12:11:12 topic: Quick Items 12:11:16 subtopic: Call for resolution on Discovery user stories 12:11:54 q+ 12:11:55 topic: Quick Items 12:12:24 McCool has joined #wot 12:12:34 mm: I will finalize PR 359 discovery 12:12:38 subtopic: Use Cases 12:12:46 s/topic: Quick Items// 12:12:48 mm: I will summarize the meeting today 12:12:55 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:12:56 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/04-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:13:02 ... there were 6-7 people in the call 12:13:10 ... we discussed the process, the role of the document 12:13:28 q+ 12:13:38 ... also putting the user stories in the individual spec documents 12:14:05 ... also we did not communicate why we do the process the way we want 12:14:13 ... also we noted the issues with the current document 12:14:28 https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/issues/362 12:15:15 ... we also need to remove some of sections or put them in other documents like architecture 12:15:16 dape has joined #wot 12:15:34 ... we are almost done with the work. I would like to keep the document and cleanup 12:16:04 q- 12:16:25 mk: my takeaway is that, the discussion has focused on what we need out of the document and why are we doing this 12:16:36 ... having a central document is good but it is not a requirement 12:16:43 ... if we do, it can be an index 12:16:52 ... that the TF work can reference from 12:17:17 ... the current work/text is from old times 12:17:19 q+ 12:17:32 rrsagent, generate minutes 12:17:33 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/04-wot-minutes.html dape 12:17:54 present+ Daniel_Peintner 12:17:58 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:17:59 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/04-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:18:21 q? 12:18:31 ... and that is how we scoped the WG work 12:18:39 ek: I object. They are not that old 12:18:42 q+ 12:18:49 q+ 12:18:52 q- 12:18:54 ... we had the current specs already 12:18:56 q- e 12:19:02 mm: I agree 12:19:40 mk: the use cases now help understanding TD 12:20:15 q+ 12:20:41 present+ Tetsushi_Matsuda 12:20:45 https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/issues/362 12:20:55 (above is the set of tweaks) 12:21:07 matsuda has joined #wot 12:21:24 q? 12:21:28 ack mc 12:21:32 mk: also the renaming is now being discussed 12:21:47 ... like use case becoming user stories 12:22:06 mm: more correctly, use cases becoming user scenarios 12:22:13 s/use case b/use cases b/ 12:22:18 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:22:20 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/04-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:22:26 q+ 12:22:53 mk: like the onboarding example 12:23:22 mm: that is not a user scenario though. A user scenario is something like automating a greenhouse 12:23:44 s/stories/scenarios/ 12:23:53 s/mm: more correctly, use cases becoming user scenarios// 12:23:56 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:23:57 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/04-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:24:03 q? 12:24:03 mk: the overall idea is to have the use cases document like an index 12:24:05 q? 12:24:08 ack m 12:24:15 q+ 12:24:26 sk: I am open with any direction 12:24:43 ... central document has benefits, individual tf documents are also good 12:24:43 ack s 12:26:26 ... I have realized that TD document does not reference use cases 12:26:32 ... a technical document should do that 12:27:14 ... also use cases document is a very old document 12:27:32 q+ 12:27:47 qq+ 12:28:18 ... mccool is doing some PRs to cleanup that I find useful 12:28:35 qq+ McCool 12:28:42 ack mc 12:28:42 McCool, you wanted to react to sebastian 12:29:25 mm: moving the document does not solve the issue, just moves it 12:29:29 ... a central document is good 12:30:10 ack e 12:30:16 q- E 12:30:20 https://www.w3.org/standards/history/wot-usecases/ 12:30:31 https://w3c.github.io/wot/ARCHIVE/ucr-doc/ 12:31:08 q+ 12:31:24 q- later 12:31:36 qq+ Sebastian 12:31:41 ack se 12:31:41 Sebastian, you wanted to react to EgeKorkan 12:32:11 q+ 12:32:20 q- later 12:32:26 ack dape 12:32:29 ack mc 12:32:49 q? 12:33:19 -> https://www.w3.org/2023/10/wot-wg-2023.html WoT WG Charter expires on 2 Oct 2025 12:33:33 kaz: I agree with koster and sebastian 12:33:49 ... I want to remind that the charter is expiring in october 12:33:56 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/planning/schedule.md schedule 12:34:24 ... we also have the summer vacation, so maybe 2 months work left 12:34:37 ... UC and Reqs is needed from W3C Process document 12:35:05 q+ 12:35:29 q+ 12:35:56 ack k 12:36:10 kaz: we should think of when to do which work, so the schedule 12:36:33 q+ 12:36:40 dp: I need to understand the process 12:36:52 ... do we need a use case for each new TD feature? like an example 12:36:54 ack d 12:36:57 q- 12:36:58 qq+ 12:38:27 q- 12:39:38 kaz: we just need to point somewhere during the transition 12:39:59 s/somewhere/some resources about the rational of each feature/ 12:40:23 q+ 12:41:02 ack e 12:41:19 ek: given that UC&R document was used for transition and that it does not have any rationale for the TD 1.1 features, we can keep it as is. Nobody seems to care 12:42:11 -> https://github.com/w3c/transitions/issues/554 TD 1.1 transition 12:42:42 ... also we don't have time pressure 12:43:10 kaz: We have also the link to the issues in the transition period 12:43:10 q+ 12:43:14 q? 12:43:21 q- 12:43:43 q+ 12:44:14 @@@ we need to think about how to manage our publication schedule and possible extension or rechartering also 12:44:25 ... we can choose what we want to do 12:44:36 mm: we can or may not get an extension 12:45:19 ... we should really address the issue of not linking back to the use cases document from td 12:47:31 kaz: also we should note that the IG works on the UC&R and the IG charter has more time 12:47:43 mm: so no time pressure for the UC&R document 12:48:03 q? 12:48:06 ack m 12:48:07 ack k 12:48:29 -> https://www.w3.org/2024/04/wot-ig-2024.html WoT IG Charter expires on 19 May 2026 12:48:44 q+ McCool 12:48:46 q+ 12:50:07 ack mc 12:50:08 ack m 12:50:35 mm: UC&R document should be high level 12:50:43 ... stuff like onboarding are technical requiremeents 12:52:17 kaz: we should have an IG and WG schedule 12:52:57 s/we should have an IG and WG schedule/would suggest we split the UC work by the IG and the TD work by the WG. also we should have an IG and WG schedule./ 12:52:58 kaz: we can have UC&R in the individual documents 12:53:09 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:53:10 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/04-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:53:34 mm: splitting the schedule to two is a good idea 12:54:15 s/individual documents/individual specifications/ 12:54:36 s/we should have an IG and WG schedule/we should have an IG and WG schedule separately/ 12:54:51 q? 12:54:52 ack k 12:55:15 mm: I will write the proposal 12:55:23 proposal: Clarify that the Use Case TF is the responsibility of the IG and the other TFs are part of the WG. Split the schedule for the IG and WG. 12:55:43 proposal: Clarify that the Use Case TF and Note is the responsibility of the IG and the other TFs are part of the WG. Split the schedule for the IG and WG. 12:56:55 s/proposal: Clarify that the Use Case TF is the responsibility of the IG and the other TFs are part of the WG. Split the schedule for the IG and WG.// 12:57:27 q? 12:57:28 q+ 12:57:42 proposal: Clarify that the Use Case TF and Note is the responsibility of the IG and the other TFs are part of the WG. Split the schedule for the IG and WG. 12:58:24 proposal: Clarify that the Use Case TF and Note is the responsibility of the IG and the other TFs are part of the WG. Split the schedule for the IG and WG and maintain them separately. 12:58:45 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/planning/schedule.md schedule.md 12:59:14 proposal: Clarify that the Use Case TF and Note is the responsibility of the IG and the other TFs are part of the WG. Decouple the schedule for the IG and WG and maintain them separately. 12:59:23 mm: any objections? 12:59:44 +1 12:59:54 resolution: Clarify that the Use Case TF and Note is the responsibility of the IG and the other TFs are part of the WG. Decouple the schedule for the IG and WG and maintain them separately. 13:00:16 q? 13:00:30 q- 13:00:44 need to step out 13:00:45 q+ 13:00:55 topic: TPAC 2025 13:01:03 mjk: Kaz has created a wiki page 13:01:08 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Wiki_for_TPAC_2025_planning WoT TPAC 2025 wiki 13:01:19 mjk: please put your availability to the wiki 13:01:23 topic: Meetups 13:01:28 subtopic: WoT CG 13:01:47 ek: will have a meeting on Thursday 13:01:59 ... about visual programming, etc. 13:02:09 subtopic: Smart Cities 13:02:20 mjk: Doodle poll ongoing for the next meeting in June/July 13:02:22 q+ 13:02:29 ack e 13:02:40 topic: AOB 13:02:44 de: Plugfest call today? 13:02:46 q+ 13:03:16 I cannot join the next call. Maybe I can join in the last 30 mins 13:03:28 ack d 13:03:32 ack k 13:04:10 kaz: don't need to have the Plugfest call today 13:04:37 ... but please put your availability about the Plugfest as well on the wiki 13:04:58 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Wiki_for_TPAC_2025_planning WoT TPAC 2025 wiki including the Plugfest section 13:05:15 jt: we need to clarify the logistics for the Plugfest 13:05:18 q+ 13:05:53 ... we don't have a sponsor yet 13:05:57 ack d 13:05:58 q+ 13:06:43 ntd 13:07:04 kaz: tx 13:07:16 ... already started to talk with the W3C Events Team about that 13:07:46 mjk: aob for today? 13:07:49 (none) 13:07:55 [adjourned] 13:08:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:08:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/04-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:08:43 i|Kaz has created|scribenick: kaz| 13:08:44 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:08:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/06/04-wot-minutes.html kaz