16:41:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
16:41:13 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/05/29-aria-irc
16:41:13 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:41:14 <Zakim> Meeting: ARIA WG
16:41:17 <jamesn> agendabot, find agenda
16:41:17 <agendabot> jamesn, OK. This may take a minute...
16:41:45 <agendabot> Sorry, I did not find an agenda.
16:42:25 <jamesn> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2025May/0022.html
16:42:25 <agendabot> jamesn, sorry, could not get https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2025May/0022.html (code 429).
16:42:55 <jamesn> agenda+ [New PR Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+created%3A%3E%3D2025-05-22+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria&type=Issues) [New Issue Triage](https://tinyurl.com/tyx5shhk)
16:42:55 <jamesn> - [WPT Open PRs](https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y)
16:42:55 <jamesn> - [Deep Dive planning](https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates)
16:42:55 <jamesn> - No meeting June 5th
16:42:55 <jamesn> - [Accessibility Compat Data Deep Dive Proposal](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2538)
16:42:56 <jamesn> - [Update: fix inconsistency around aria-setsize=-1](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2341)
16:42:56 <jamesn> - PR review requests?
16:43:30 <jamesn> agenda+ [WPT Open PRs](https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y)
16:43:30 <jamesn> agenda+ [Deep Dive planning](https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates)
16:43:30 <jamesn> agenda+ No meeting June 5th
16:43:30 <jamesn> agenda+ [Accessibility Compat Data Deep Dive Proposal](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2538)
16:43:30 <jamesn> agenda+ [Update: fix inconsistency around aria-setsize=-1](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2341)
16:43:31 <jamesn> agenda+ PR review requests?
17:00:11 <filippo-zorzi> filippo-zorzi has joined #aria
17:02:17 <ChrisCuellar> ChrisCuellar has joined #aria
17:02:41 <ChrisCuellar> present+
17:02:50 <scott> scott has joined #aria
17:02:52 <filippo-zorzi> present+
17:02:56 <Adam_Page> present+
17:03:00 <giacomo-petri8> giacomo-petri8 has joined #aria
17:03:13 <giacomo-petri> giacomo-petri has joined #aria
17:03:18 <giacomo-petri> present+
17:03:27 <Rahim> present+
17:05:58 <spectranaut_> join the deep meeting link: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/ef15df01-f812-4d5e-a91a-f2c6b0a5a7ed/
17:06:59 <spectranaut_> shoot that didn't work
17:07:06 <giacomo-petri> :D
17:07:08 <spectranaut_> I'll try something else
17:07:22 <keithamus> Can we use the prior deep dive meeting?
17:07:33 <spectranaut_> no its the same link
17:07:38 <spectranaut_> and it won't let us join that meeting
17:07:39 <katez> katez has joined #aria
17:07:44 <spectranaut_> I'm going to add a new link to the current meeting
17:07:45 <jamesn> ha - the host has another meeting scheduled
17:07:53 <cyns> cyns has joined #aria
17:08:05 <scott> sort of present ~
17:08:07 <jamesn> Daniel can only have 1 and the ARIA one is scheduled
17:08:17 <giacomo-petri> <scott> sort of present ~ :D:D:D
17:08:49 <spectranaut_> Got it, ok, I added a new link to the current aria meeting
17:09:02 <spectranaut_> https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/5a155237-d896-464b-9c5f-6dd1654293ae/20250529T130000/
17:10:06 <spectranaut_> load this page and click "join now" ^
17:10:55 <ChrisCuellar> present+
17:11:51 <jamesn> scribe: jamesn
17:11:52 <sirib> sirib has joined #aria
17:12:02 <jamesn> zakim, next
17:12:02 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next', jamesn
17:12:06 <katez> present+
17:12:19 <jamesn> zakim, next item
17:12:19 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- [New PR Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+created%3A%3E%3D2025-05-22+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria&type=Issues) [New Issue
17:12:20 <front-endian-jane> front-endian-jane has joined #aria
17:12:22 <Zakim> ... Triage](https://tinyurl.com/tyx5shhk) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:12:42 <front-endian-jane> attending+
17:12:55 <jamesn> zakim, close this item
17:12:55 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
17:12:56 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:12:56 <Zakim> 2. [WPT Open PRs](https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y) [from jamesn]
17:12:56 <jamesn> zakim, next item
17:12:57 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- [WPT Open PRs](https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:13:11 <front-endian-jane> present+
17:13:14 <jamesn> zakim, close this item
17:13:14 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
17:13:15 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:13:15 <Zakim> 3. [Deep Dive planning](https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates) [from jamesn]
17:13:15 <jamesn> zakim, next item
17:13:16 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- [Deep Dive planning](https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:13:35 <jamesn> zakim, take up item 2
17:13:35 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- [WPT Open PRs](https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:14:48 <jamesn> jamesn: sounds like this new accname Issue is not urgent
17:14:54 <jamesn> spectranaut_: assigned to mel
17:15:03 <jamesn> No new WPT PRs
17:15:08 <jamesn> zakim, next item
17:15:08 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- [Deep Dive planning](https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:15:31 <jamesn> spectranaut_: just had a deep dive on sort order. Daniel can provide recording if you want it
17:15:47 <jamesn> spectranaut_: Adrian will provide a write up
17:15:57 <jamesn> zakim, next item
17:15:57 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, jamesn
17:16:04 <jamesn> zakim, close this item
17:16:04 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
17:16:05 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:16:05 <Zakim> 4. No meeting June 5th [from jamesn]
17:16:06 <jamesn> zakim, next item
17:16:07 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- No meeting June 5th -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:16:49 <jamesn> zakim, close this item
17:16:49 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
17:16:50 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:16:50 <Zakim> 5. [Accessibility Compat Data Deep Dive Proposal](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2538) [from jamesn]
17:16:51 <jamesn> zakim, next item
17:16:52 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- [Accessibility Compat Data Deep Dive Proposal](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2538) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:16:59 <jamesn> zakim, close this item
17:16:59 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
17:17:00 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:17:00 <Zakim> 6. [Update: fix inconsistency around aria-setsize=-1](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2341) [from jamesn]
17:17:00 <jamesn> zakim, next item
17:17:01 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- [Update: fix inconsistency around aria-setsize=-1](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2341) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:17:23 <jamesn> spectranaut_: This is an old PR about aria-setsize
17:17:35 <jamesn> spectranaut_: Adam volunteered to research
17:17:47 <jamesn> Adam_Page: Did some research to see what browsers are doing
17:18:05 <spectranaut_> link to research: https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2341#issuecomment-2903007696
17:18:29 <jamesn> Adam_Page: with this PR we are formalizing the language over what it is. Any non empty string that is not a positive integer. 0 & -1 should be indeterminate
17:18:45 <jamesn> Adam_Page: Says now user agents must not caluculate
17:19:05 <jamesn> Adam_Page: created tests - and then listened to browser / screen reader combos
17:19:19 <jamesn> Adam_Page: also for a number of different controls
17:19:29 <jamesn> Adam_Page: all of the browsers exhibit failures
17:19:56 <jamesn> Adam_Page: found bugs for FF, Rahim created one for webkit, created a new one for Chromium
17:20:10 <Rahim> q+
17:20:11 <jamesn> Adam_Page: then added those links to the PR
17:20:51 <jamesn> spectranaut_: thanks for the research
17:20:57 <jamesn> ack Rahim
17:20:59 <spectranaut_> ack Rahim
17:21:11 <jamesn> Rahim: +1 thanks for the investigation
17:21:44 <jamesn> Rahim: prepared a patch. My question is about the indeterminate size of a set and what the AT experience should be
17:21:46 <jamesn> q+
17:21:56 <scott> i appreciate adam just outlining to everyone what he did, as i'm sure the steps to test/file bugs may not be known to everyone
17:21:58 <jamesn> Rahim: what is the expected AT experience
17:22:16 <jamesn> Adam_Page: purposely didn't give any expectations
17:22:55 <jamesn> scott: started a few years back for tabels and grids which are loading "awesome" data that everyone cares about. Getting bugs that things were all over the map.
17:23:37 <jamesn> scott: zeroed in on the idea that if we don't know how much stuff is there - say it is indeterminate or dont' say a count that is not accurate
17:24:01 <jamesn> Adam_Page: there were a few cases where I marked a few use cases as satisfactory
17:24:44 <jamesn> Rahim: in terms of the scenarios where there needs to be a repair done. Could the author override the number of items in a set with set size. Could they put set size to -1
17:25:02 <jamesn> scott: that is a signal that they are trying to say that they expect more
17:25:28 <jamesn> if someone uses it incorrectly then that is incorrect
17:25:36 <jamesn> ack me
17:26:08 <spectranaut_> jamesn: I'd like if we could suggest screen reader information
17:26:15 <spectranaut_> jamesn: such as "at least 5 rows"
17:26:28 <spectranaut_> jamesn: where 5 is the number of rows currently
17:26:47 <spectranaut_> Rahim: would that be confusing if it changes?
17:26:55 <spectranaut_> jamesn: well we know it will be adding more
17:29:12 <jamesn> jane: don't disagree it may be usedful to say there are at least this many - if the number calculated is wrong
17:30:07 <jamesn> jamesn: yes - i'd suggest that it uses the max number of the aria-rowindex
17:31:18 <scott> scott says "argal bable fagabble and everyone says "ok" to that"
17:32:07 <jamesn> jane: believe you are seeing enough bugs in the wild that don't want to encourage screen readers to calculate any values
17:32:29 <jamesn> zakim, next item
17:32:29 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- PR review requests? -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:35:04 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
17:35:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/29-aria-minutes.html jamesn
17:38:27 <jamesn> (live PR updates)
17:49:48 <spectranaut_> https://deploy-preview-2105--wai-aria.netlify.app/#accessibilityroleandproperties-correspondence
17:56:42 <keithamus> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2541
17:57:52 <Rahim> q+
17:58:54 <jamesn> ack RRSAgent
17:59:00 <jamesn> ack Rahim
17:59:13 <jamesn> zakim, end meeting
17:59:13 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been ChrisCuellar, filippo-zorzi, Adam_Page, giacomo-petri, Rahim, keithamus, katez, front-endian-jane
17:59:15 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
17:59:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/29-aria-minutes.html Zakim
17:59:22 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, jamesn; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
17:59:23 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria
17:59:32 <keithamus> https://deploy-preview-2541--wai-aria.netlify.app/#accessibilityroleandproperties-correspondence
17:59:42 <scott> posting this PR here as it has all accepting reviews, but one waiting from jamesn - https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2416 :D
18:00:48 <spectranaut_> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:00:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/29-aria-minutes.html spectranaut_
18:24:58 <ChrisCuellar> ChrisCuellar has joined #aria
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