14:01:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
14:01:10 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/05/23-rdf-star-irc
14:01:10 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:01:11 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), AndyS
14:01:13 <pfps> pfps has joined #rdf-star
14:01:21 <pfps> present+
14:01:28 <AndyS> meeting: SPARQL TF
14:01:33 <AndyS> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/61c78314-cb94-4c95-8701-8b6311746c29/20250523T140000/#agenda
14:01:33 <agendabot> clear agenda
14:01:33 <agendabot> agenda+ Scribe?
14:01:33 <agendabot> agenda+ Process and Admin
14:01:33 <agendabot> agenda+ Tests for -> issues 1 to 5 https://github.com/afs/SPARQL-exists/tree/main/tests
14:01:33 <agendabot> agenda+ Updates tp -> PR 177 https://github.com/w3c/sparql-query/pull/177
14:01:36 <agendabot> agenda+ Topic for next time
14:01:42 <AndyS> present+
14:01:47 <olaf> olaf has joined #rdf-star
14:01:48 <AndyS> chair: AndyS
14:01:54 <eBremer> eBremer has joined #rdf-star
14:02:01 <AndyS> rrsagent, make logs public
14:02:12 <AndyS> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:02:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/23-rdf-star-minutes.html AndyS
14:02:36 <Tpt> present+
14:02:48 <AndyS> present+ james
14:03:37 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-star
14:03:56 <Souri> present+
14:03:57 <olaf> present+
14:04:11 <AndyS> regrets: kasei
14:04:24 <AndyS> zakim, open item 1
14:04:24 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Scribe? -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:04:35 <olaf> regrets: gtw
14:05:01 <olaf> scribe+
14:05:09 <AndyS> zakim, open item 2
14:05:09 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Process and Admin -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:05:13 <olaf> scribe: olaf
14:05:37 <olaf> AndyS: nothing for Process and admin from my side
14:06:06 <AndyS> zakim, next item
14:06:06 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, AndyS
14:06:07 <olaf> ... general idea for today to look at the tests and then to look at the PR
14:06:08 <james> q+
14:06:18 <AndyS> zakim, close item 2
14:06:18 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, AndyS
14:06:21 <olaf> PR #177
14:06:22 <gb> Issue 177 not found
14:06:39 <olaf> james: I sent an email regarding the tests
14:06:46 <olaf> ... about where to put the results
14:06:54 <AndyS> ack james
14:06:57 <olaf> ... haven't had much time to look at the results
14:07:03 <AndyS> zakim, close item 2
14:07:03 <Zakim> agendum 2, Process and Admin, closed
14:07:04 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:07:04 <Zakim> 1. Scribe? [from agendabot]
14:07:16 <AndyS> zakim, close item 1
14:07:16 <Zakim> agendum 1, Scribe?, closed
14:07:17 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:07:17 <Zakim> 3. Tests for -> issues 1 to 5 https://github.com/afs/SPARQL-exists/tree/main/tests [from agendabot]
14:07:20 <olaf> ... Question is whether it makes sense to add a folder for putting the results
14:07:30 <AndyS> q+
14:07:32 <olaf> ... for different query engines
14:07:48 <olaf> ... to collect the results all in a document
14:08:00 <olaf> ... in order to be able to compare results across implementations
14:08:26 <olaf> AndyS: I don't think it is a good idea
14:08:41 <olaf> ... we already have a format for the manifests
14:08:47 <james> q+
14:09:02 <olaf> ... engine implementers have already invested time supporting that
14:09:15 <olaf> ... I think you are asking for reports, not results
14:09:31 <olaf> james: I have not used W3C machinery recently
14:09:56 <olaf> ... but I don't think there is a facility to compare
14:10:30 <olaf> AndyS: results are expected results not reporting results
14:10:43 <olaf> ... for reporting, there is the EARL format
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14:10:55 <olaf> james: but that's for a single implementation only
14:11:08 <olaf> AndyS: yes, but these can be aggregated
14:11:25 <olaf> james: I want the ability to view them side by side
14:11:59 <AndyS> https://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/
14:12:05 <olaf> q+
14:13:01 <james> q+
14:13:23 <olaf> pfps: I EARL can be used to say what your system is, then this should be fine
14:13:24 <olaf> q-
14:13:58 <olaf> ... but this doesn't have EARL data in it.
14:14:32 <olaf> AndyS: I believe there is code that takes EARL reports and creates HTML representation.
14:15:35 <Tpt> q+
14:15:39 <olaf> james: Another thing that would be useful for the discussion would be to have the query and the result produced by the implementation; EARL has only pass/fail
14:15:52 <olaf> pfps: Yes, that would be good to have
14:16:18 <olaf> AndyS: If you could take the action to make this work, that would be great.
14:16:53 <olaf> james: Yes, I am proposing a directory structure for it. I am implementing something on top of it.
14:17:25 <olaf> pfps: Better would be to add a new field to EARL to include the produced query results in the EARL reports.
14:18:43 <olaf> james: My suggestion is a directory tree that parallels the directory tree of the tests, into which implementers put their query results.
14:19:15 <olaf> pfps: Still better if implementers would extend their EARL output
14:21:33 <Tpt> q+ on over engineering
14:21:40 <AndyS> q-
14:21:58 <AndyS> ack james
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14:23:00 <AndyS> ack tpt
14:23:00 <Zakim> Tpt, you wanted to comment on over engineering
14:23:05 <olaf> pfps: I will look into EARL
14:23:19 <olaf> Tpt: Can't we be lazy?
14:24:18 <olaf> ... ((scribe comment: I didn't catch the proposal ))
14:24:53 <AndyS> q+
14:25:09 <olaf> james: pfps, can you send me your results
14:25:15 <olaf> pfps: no
14:25:38 <olaf> james: please send them
14:25:45 <AndyS> ack me
14:25:53 <Tpt> s/... ((scribe comment: I didn't catch the proposal ))/create a variant of the test per possible output this way we can see which behavior each implementation chose to have/
14:26:26 <olaf> pfps: For the three that I managed to run, there were lots of variations and divergence from the standard
14:26:44 <olaf> AndyS: Why don't you create gist or a wiki page for it?
14:26:55 <olaf> pfps: yes, I can do that
14:28:52 <olaf> AndyS: We now have five test directories, one for each of the five EXIST-related issues
14:30:35 <AndyS> https://github.com/afs/SPARQL-exists/blob/main/tests/exists-2-def-var/exists-bad-syntax-01.rq
14:31:00 <AndyS> https://github.com/afs/SPARQL-exists/blob/main/tests/exists-2-def-var/exists-good-syntax-01.rq
14:31:17 <AndyS> https://github.com/afs/SPARQL-exists/blob/main/tests/
14:31:32 <pfps> the idea is that you could have several "tests" with the same query but different "expected" results
14:33:24 <AndyS> zakim, next item
14:33:24 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Tests for -> issues 1 to 5 https://github.com/afs/SPARQL-exists/tree/main/tests -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:34:33 <olaf> q+
14:35:03 <AndyS> https://github.com/afs/SPARQL-exists/blob/main/tests/exists-1-empty-bgp/exists-empty-bgp-02.rq
14:36:44 <olaf> q-
14:36:59 <AndyS> agenda?
14:37:01 <olaf> olaf: Only tests with EXISTS in FILTER?
14:37:07 <olaf> AndyS: yes, at the moment
14:37:12 <AndyS> zakim, close item
14:37:12 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close item', AndyS
14:37:18 <AndyS> zakim, close item 3
14:37:18 <Zakim> agendum 3, Tests for -> issues 1 to 5 https://github.com/afs/SPARQL-exists/tree/main/tests, closed
14:37:20 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:37:20 <Zakim> 4. Updates tp -> PR 177 https://github.com/w3c/sparql-query/pull/177 [from agendabot]
14:37:29 <AndyS> zakim, open item, 4
14:37:29 <Zakim> '\,\ 4' does not match any agenda item, AndyS
14:37:32 <olaf> olaf: It might make sense to also have tests with FILTER in BIND
14:37:34 <AndyS> zakim, open item 4
14:37:34 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Updates tp -> PR 177 https://github.com/w3c/sparql-query/pull/177 -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:41:20 <olaf> q+
14:41:36 <AndyS> ack olaf
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14:46:04 <AndyS> zakim, next item
14:46:04 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Topic for next time -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:46:36 <olaf> AndyS: For next time, one item can be pfps' work
14:46:41 <olaf> ... on the tests
14:46:51 <olaf> pfps: What exactly?
14:46:59 <olaf> AndyS: Your action on the tests
14:51:00 <AndyS> zakim, end meeting
14:51:00 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been james, pfps, AndyS, Tpt, Souri, olaf
14:51:02 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:51:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/23-rdf-star-minutes.html Zakim
14:51:09 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, AndyS; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
14:51:10 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdf-star
14:51:15 <AndyS> rrsagent, excuse us
14:51:15 <RRSAgent> I see no action items