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14:48:50 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/05/22-pcg-a11y-irc
14:48:57 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #pcg-a11y
14:49:10 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, this will be pcg-a11y
14:49:10 <Zakim> ok, AvneeshSingh
14:49:28 <AvneeshSingh> present+
14:49:38 <AvneeshSingh> chair: AvneeshSingh
14:50:06 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Revision of Accessibility summary guide.
14:50:20 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Next steps for localized placeholders.
14:50:34 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ EPUB audio books:
14:50:47 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Fixed layouts can be display modifiable
14:51:01 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Any other business.
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14:58:51 <George> George has joined #pcg-a11y
14:59:33 <George> present+
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15:01:48 <gautierchomel> present+
15:01:50 <gpellegrino> present+
15:01:50 <gautierchomel> scribe+
15:01:53 <Madeleine> Madeleine has joined #pcg-a11y
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15:02:50 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:02:50 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Revision of Accessibility summary guide. -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:03:09 <AvneeshSingh> https://www.w3.org/publishing/a11y/schema-a11y-summary/
15:03:35 <Madeleine> present+
15:04:01 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: do we need to update this guide?
15:04:03 <gautierchomel> q+
15:04:06 <mgarrish> q+
15:04:16 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
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15:04:20 <gautierchomel> George: and does it need to exist?
15:04:27 <CharlesL> present+
15:05:10 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:05:37 <gautierchomel> gautierchomel: I would like to rediscuss the sentence related to multiple accessibility summary in different languages. It's a practice we should recognise.
15:05:57 <CharlesL> q+
15:06:19 <George> q+
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15:06:28 <gautierchomel> mgarrish: I agree we need to do something, but not sure what.
15:06:31 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:06:43 <ChrisOliverOttawa> present+
15:07:32 <Chris_S> present+
15:08:32 <gpellegrino> q+
15:08:48 <gautierchomel> CharlesL: in GCA we've discussed with publishers and we think it would be great to have examples. Like "pages have been removed from the print original, because blank or legal mentions to print". That could be examples about what not to do.
15:08:49 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:09:57 <mgarrish> q+
15:10:12 <Madeleine> q+
15:10:58 <gautierchomel> George: now we have a much better machine readable information and a strong display guide. Maybe we miss a best practices for publishers to write those informations. This guidance could be extended to more topics.
15:11:07 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:11:58 <CharlesL> q+
15:13:09 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:13:33 <gautierchomel> gpellegrino: there are still use cases for using the summary. Today most publisher fill it because it's a reported error by ACE, and zero ACE issues is requested by distributors. ACE should change this. I'll reopen the issue and send an information to the CG.
15:15:05 <gautierchomel> mgarrish: we have too much information in too many places. too many different documents to map. Maybe that should stand in the techniques.
15:15:11 <AvneeshSingh> ack madel
15:15:42 <gautierchomel> Madeleine: another place is the vocabulary documents.
15:15:47 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:17:48 <gautierchomel> CharlesL: most common usecase i see is files missing few things to get wcag aa, they explain that in the summary.
15:18:07 <CharlesL> q+
15:18:13 <JonasLillqvist> q+
15:19:19 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:19:26 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: to sumarise, we cannot keept this document as it is. It's a bigger project to move to a new document. For now we can copy what's in the technqiues here and see in the futur how to reorganise.
15:21:03 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:21:15 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:23:11 <CharlesL> q+
15:23:13 <gautierchomel> JonasLillqvist: ACE behavior seems to be based on EPUB accessibility recomandation. It says Should, so as a publisher i interpret is as it is better to include it. We may want to clarify at this level.
15:24:00 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:24:10 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:24:32 <JonasLillqvist> q+
15:24:49 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:25:13 <gautierchomel> JonasLillqvist: Can we change from Should to May?
15:25:21 <George> q+
15:25:24 <mgarrish> q+
15:25:37 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:25:48 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: we can discuss that next week, it will be the Maintenance working group accessibility task force.
15:25:51 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:28:04 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:28:19 <gautierchomel> George: maybe we can start a CG note knowing it gonna take a long time to complete. This accessibility summary document is linked in many persons bookmarks. It's difficult to make it just disapear.
15:29:18 <gautierchomel> mgarrish: it will be easier to change ACE behavior than chaging the EPUB Accessibility document.
15:29:18 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:30:43 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: so we'll add a paragraphe stating that this document is obsolete and start a new one with content copy pasted from the technics and updating it. I wonder if this should not better be in the WG, as rec track document.
15:31:06 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:33:26 <George> q+
15:33:35 <AvneeshSingh> ack george
15:33:49 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: avantage of CG is flexibility.
15:34:02 <gautierchomel> s/avantage/advantage/
15:34:52 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:38:51 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:38:51 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Next steps for localized placeholders. -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:39:12 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/688
15:40:13 <gautierchomel> CharlesL: when putting a date in a sentence, depending on the language you need to move the place of the word.
15:40:50 <AvneeshSingh> q?
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15:41:12 <gautierchomel> gpellegrino: instead of concatenating, itr's better to have a placeholder in the string, usually between brackets so it can be freely moved by the person localising.
15:41:13 <Hadrien> present+
15:41:18 <Hadrien> q+
15:41:43 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:42:58 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:43:15 <gautierchomel> Hadrien: this came out when implementing in the readium mobile toolkits. It's possible to have more than one variable (day, month, year per exemple). Interpolating strings necesitate to have each piece in brackets.
15:43:51 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:44:13 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: that mean a change in the json file and a warning for implementers.
15:44:19 <Hadrien> q+
15:44:33 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:45:45 <CharlesL> q+
15:46:21 <gautierchomel> Hadrien: we should recomand using interpolated strings and localised dates. As a user I can set up a language and a date format, that's may be different. Implementers should not show raw data for dates, but format them to the user preference.
15:46:41 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:46:57 <mgarrish> q+
15:47:27 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:47:34 <gautierchomel> CharlesL: that also affects WCAG versions and levels.
15:48:19 <gautierchomel> mgarrish: for WCAG we can rely on official translations as they exist.
15:48:41 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:49:51 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:49:54 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: editors will figure out how to make that change.
15:50:06 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:50:06 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- EPUB audio books: -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:50:21 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/570
15:51:46 <Hadrien> q+
15:52:07 <gautierchomel> mgarrish: ONIX is more accurate than schema here. We might end up calling EPUB an audiobook, introducing confusion.
15:52:25 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:53:22 <gautierchomel> s/EPUB an audiobook/an EPUB "audiobook"/
15:54:55 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:56:02 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:56:05 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: seems for now we can rework the text. For later, see if it can be fixed in schema.
15:57:18 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: next call may be cancelled as there is a Daisy board meeting.
15:58:56 <AvneeshSingh> rrsagent, make minutes
15:58:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/22-pcg-a11y-minutes.html AvneeshSingh
15:59:10 <AvneeshSingh> rrsagent, make logs public