14:14:51 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
14:14:56 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/05/19-coga-irc
14:14:56 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:14:57 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:15:10 <Lisa> agenda?
14:15:27 <Lisa> agenda+ updates
14:15:52 <Lisa> agenda+ trigger warning patterns - how to deal with the uncertenties https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Itskr4srybRQa7hyIqMRiOPyjFyKB9apHYWdvGRb6gE/edit?tab=t.0
14:16:04 <Lisa> agenda+ trigger warning patterns - editing https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Itskr4srybRQa7hyIqMRiOPyjFyKB9apHYWdvGRb6gE/edit?tab=t.0
14:19:53 <Lisa> agenda+ feedback See https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VsHS-oQDR7XY87E91sd-zqYaq8DCH9Ppwf9YeqCNcks/edit?tab=t.6u0guiuj49eo#heading=h.9h7upmyt2ez1
14:20:37 <Lisa> Agenda+ reminder for scribing https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list
14:20:48 <Lisa> Agenda+ reminder no call next week
14:20:52 <Lisa> Q?
14:29:26 <Lisa> Regrets+ Becca, EA, Eric, Jeane, Gareth
14:50:43 <Lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
14:50:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/19-coga-minutes.html Lisa
14:55:08 <rashmi> rashmi has joined #coga
15:00:59 <rashmi> present+
15:01:12 <Lisa> present+
15:01:37 <tiffanyburtin> tiffanyburtin has joined #coga
15:01:55 <Lisa> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list
15:02:01 <tiffanyburtin> present+
15:02:18 <julierawe> julierawe has joined #coga
15:02:20 <julierawe> present+
15:02:26 <Lisa> pick a scribe
15:02:38 <Lisa> scribe+ Julie
15:03:00 <Lisa> next item
15:03:12 <Lisa> scribe+ Julie, lisa
15:03:21 <Charli> Charli has joined #coga
15:03:24 <Lisa> julie: ag charter and smart aprouch
15:03:32 <julierawe> https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/306
15:04:27 <julierawe> Julie will share with Charli how to log into GitHub
15:04:50 <Lisa> github: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Github_for_members
15:06:23 <Lisa> 306 is the link to what they would do in the charter
15:06:28 <Lisa> it is important
15:08:05 <Lisa> rachels coments is worth a thums up...
15:08:07 <Lisa> In order to provide broadened disability support, WCAG 3 will:
15:08:07 <Lisa> Include requirements that only apply in certain situations [Define by Date & Example Date], and
15:08:07 <Lisa> Include assertions for processes that don’t lead to repeatable results but have been shown to improve accessibility [Define by Date & Example Date].
15:08:07 <Lisa> Add additional guidance for people with low vision and with cognitive and learning disabilities that was not included in WCAG 2.2 [Define by Date & Example Date].
15:08:32 <Lisa> these are important for coga requirments to get in
15:08:56 <Lisa> q?
15:09:12 <Lisa> > https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/306
15:09:35 <julierawe> Please add your thumbs-up to this statement in particular about allowing assertions in WCAG 3: https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/306#discussioncomment-13051762
15:10:20 <rashmi> q+
15:11:51 <Lisa> ack next
15:14:26 <Lisa> the date and time are for the smart goals with dates
15:14:41 <Lisa> rashmi, it is realy hard to get the dates in this work
15:18:02 <Lisa> julie :ate guidelines as user-centered statements and requirements as outcomes. Technology specific information will be included in methods. [Define by Date & Ex
15:19:12 <Lisa> tifany. second comment is to promote incromental change
15:19:33 <Lisa> lisa thinks this about about adapt
15:19:51 <julierawe> Here is a link to the statement about allowing new ideas to be in WCAG 3 first as best practices and then to become supplemental or foundational requirements over time: https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/306#discussioncomment-13051987
15:20:43 <Lisa> a path to get it though
15:21:22 <julierawe> julierawe will send an email after this meeting asking people to thumbs-up things by the end of today
15:21:31 <Lisa> next item
15:22:12 <julierawe> q+
15:22:22 <Lisa> ack next
15:23:17 <julierawe> Rashmi wants subgroup time to discuss color pattern
15:23:39 <julierawe> julierawe would like to use this week's subgroup meeting to discuss AG charter requirements
15:24:08 <julierawe> Lisa wants to discuss the trigger warning pattern now
15:25:21 <julierawe> Lisa We found some research that said trigger warnings are helpful and some research that says it's not helpful
15:25:41 <julierawe> Lisa Conflicting research
15:26:09 <Charli> q+ on range of content for trigger warnings
15:26:12 <julierawe> Lisa We made a pattern that includes global settings that allow users to customize, including turning off the trigger warnings
15:26:38 <julierawe> Lisa Without clear research, are we comfortable suggesting this customization approach?
15:26:49 <Lisa> ack next
15:26:50 <Zakim> Charli, you wanted to comment on range of content for trigger warnings
15:26:52 <julierawe> Lisa Would it be better to have an issue paper with a call for more research?
15:27:48 <julierawe> Charli Would they apply to not-safe-for-work content?
15:28:01 <julierawe> Lisa We're saying if you have trigger warnings, they need to be adjustable
15:28:30 <julierawe> Lisa The research is so ambiguous. A lot of people have found them helpful, but the research doesn't back it up consistently.
15:28:49 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Itskr4srybRQa7hyIqMRiOPyjFyKB9apHYWdvGRb6gE/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.ko4kl8hexve2
15:29:33 <julierawe> Lisa Maybe we could put in a note that says this is a best practice because we think this will help, but we don't know.
15:29:56 <julierawe> Charli Is there a link to the research that has been reviewed to drive this decision?
15:30:08 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eKNrofGubnpQE6mO-vxmI-1MW5nA2LDj0LxebREPRGA/edit?resourcekey=&gid=1686096268#gid=1686096268
15:31:46 <julierawe> Charli Anecdotally, some exposure can be helpful for debilitating phobias.
15:32:16 <julierawe> Charli Being able to tailor how much exposure they need to make progress would be really cool, but needs to be done with guidance of therapist
15:32:40 <julierawe> Lisa Maybe it belongs more in an issue paper than as a pattern.
15:33:00 <julierawe> Lisa I like the idea of saying "work with a therapist"
15:33:15 <julierawe> q+
15:33:55 <julierawe> Lisa The guidance would recommend that developers consult with therapists on how to build the right mechanisms
15:34:54 <julierawe> Lisa We also suggested a soft trigger warning where if you don't have control of the platform, you could say, "This content contains violence...up to you if you want to skip to something else."
15:35:01 <Lisa> ack next
15:36:00 <Lisa> julie: there are big questions , how does the developer know if it is ok. maybe just an issue paper
15:36:25 <julierawe> rashmi We want developer to provide global settings that can be customized
15:36:42 <julierawe> Lisa Is it a better idea to just have it as an issue paper?
15:36:46 <Lisa> rashmi: we are sugesting global setting
15:36:52 <julierawe> rashmi This will be helpful long term
15:37:20 <julierawe> rashmi We need more examples like Charli's to make stronger recommendations
15:37:40 <julierawe> rashmi It should not be left out of the new draft of Making Content Usable
15:37:57 <julierawe> q+
15:38:21 <Lisa> ack next
15:38:46 <Lisa> julie can we see the patern
15:41:10 <julierawe> julierawe The summary seems very complicated
15:42:04 <Lisa> A: new partent  B new patern with new statis. suggested. C just issue paper
15:42:19 <julierawe> Lisa There are 3 options: 1st option is a new pattern, 2nd option is a best practice/recommendation, and 3rd option is an issue paper
15:42:25 <julierawe> q+
15:42:30 <Lisa> ack next
15:44:22 <Lisa> There are 3 options: 1st option is a new pattern, 2nd option is a best practice/recommendation, and 3rd option patern but more limited to just if tigerwarning they must be adjustable 4. just have  an issue paper
15:44:37 <Lisa> There are 4 options: 1st option is a new pattern, 2nd option is a best practice/recommendation, and 3rd option patern but more limited to just if tigerwarning they must be adjustable 4. just have  an issue paper
15:44:46 <julierawe> rashmi We started with "make trigger warnings customizable"
15:46:35 <Lisa> There are 4 options: 1st option is a new pattern minor edit , 2nd option is a best practice/recommendation, and 3rd option patern but more limited strong edit  4. just have  an issue paper . vote for more then 1
15:46:54 <julierawe> q+
15:47:03 <Lisa> ack next
15:48:09 <julierawe> julierawe If this became an issue paper, would we have other new patterns in Making Content Usable that cover mental health?
15:48:47 <julierawe> Lisa I don't think the number of patterns about mental health is an issue. More important to give the right advice.
15:49:39 <julierawe> 2 or 4
15:50:08 <Charli> 2, 4
15:50:26 <julierawe> (and yes to strong edit!)
15:50:57 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin I'm leaning toward 2 and 4 as well
15:51:25 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin If we don't have it as a requirement, then businesses won't take it up/
15:53:41 <tiffanyburtin> q+
15:54:04 <julierawe> julierawe I suggest we try to include as a best practice so that we can include caveats about the research. The main advantage of making it a best practice is people will see it in Making Content Usable rather than having to go elsewhere (to an issue paper)
15:54:34 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin Research papers may come if we identify that the community is saying "this is an issue"
15:54:41 <Lisa> ack next
15:54:56 <julierawe> rashmi The research papers are indicating that trigger warnings are not helpful
15:55:17 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin I thought some papers said they were helpful and some papers said they aren't
15:55:43 <Charli> q+
15:55:44 <julierawe> rashmi The research says consistently that trigger warnings are not helpful
15:56:30 <julierawe> Sorry, I need to leave to get ready for a 12pm meeting
15:56:34 <julierawe> Can someone else scribe?
15:57:03 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin I filter almost all of my content in social media so I don't have to see triggering items
15:57:24 <julierawe> Charli This is why I wanted to look at the research. Is it in a clinical setting? It might be that the right research hasn't been done yet
15:57:29 <julierawe> Lisa That's my fear
15:57:44 <tiffanyburtin> Agree with Charli
15:57:45 <julierawe> Lisa My fear is they haven't tested adjusting trigger warnings
15:57:55 <julierawe> I need to stop scribing
15:57:58 <julierawe> rrsagent, make minutes
15:58:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/19-coga-minutes.html julierawe
15:58:13 <julierawe> bye, everybody!
15:58:28 <Lisa> rashmi: suggest next call review the reserch
15:58:32 <Lisa> +1
15:59:33 <tiffanyburtin> I would want to know if there are lived experiences that are not reflected correctly in the research that currently exists.
16:00:10 <Lisa> > rrsagent, make minutes
16:00:47 <Lisa> rrsagent, make minutes
16:00:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/19-coga-minutes.html Lisa