15:00:29 RRSAgent has joined #tt 15:00:33 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/05/08-tt-irc 15:00:33 RRSAgent, make logs Public 15:00:34 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 15:00:50 scribe: nigel 15:01:00 Present+ Nigel, Atsushi 15:01:04 agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/306 15:01:12 Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/04/24-tt-minutes.html 15:01:23 cpn has joined #tt 15:01:26 Present+ Chris_Needham 15:01:39 Chair: Nigel 15:02:23 Topic: This meeting 15:02:36 Present+ Gary 15:02:39 Chair: Nigel, Gary 15:02:52 Present+ Matt 15:03:01 scribe+ cpn 15:03:04 Present+ Pierre 15:03:29 Present+ Andreas 15:04:21 Topic: Introduction 15:04:28 Nigel: [reviews the agenda] 15:05:28 ... Anything else, or points in those topics? 15:05:34 (nothing) 15:05:56 Topic: Republication of png-hdr-pq WG Note 15:06:15 Nigel: Atsushi, what's the status? 15:06:31 Atsushi: There was a comment that one PR should be merged before publication 15:06:41 ... I'll follow up 15:07:11 Nigel: There's one open issue, about publishing the note, no PRs 15:07:29 ... We fixed some Respec issues last week 15:07:47 Present+ Cyril 15:07:53 Atsushi: Let me work on that 15:08:11 Topic: Apply streamlined publication to all of Note track documents 15:08:13 atai has joined #tt 15:08:24 Nigel: Is any action needed here? 15:09:33 Atsushi: I don't think there's anything remaining, other than png-hdr-pq. We could configure streamlined publication for everything, which would need a decision. We have one Registry as Note, so may be possible to configure that 15:09:51 ... TTML Profile Definitions Registry 15:10:24 Nigel: I think we decided last meeting to configure streamlined publication for all Notes. I didn't get any feedback in the decision review period 15:10:50 Atsushi: Let me put the config for the registry and the ?? format 15:11:35 Nigel: Anything else on this? 15:11:36 (nothing) 15:11:40 Topic: DAPT 15:11:48 Subtopic: Transition DAPT requirements WG draft Note as formal Note 15:12:03 Nigel: This has been done 15:12:20 ->https://www.w3.org/TR/dapt-reqs/ dapt-reqs is now a WG Note 15:13:03 Atsushi: The GH Action publishes the note. The same-day publication may confuse some systems. I can push tomorrow to re-run the job 15:13:14 Nigel: There's one open PR 15:13:33 Subtopic: Add links to MAUR requirements w3c/dapt-reqs#23 15:13:35 github: https://github.com/w3c/dapt-reqs/pull/23 15:14:53 Nigel: This is work I did years ago, for the predecessor, ADPT, all still correct since that time. So I was able to copy/paste the previous work 15:15:25 ... It's had some previous review from that time. It would be useful to review again, if anyone is able to 15:15:42 SUMMARY: Review requested 15:15:52 Subtopic: Consider PS4 and PS5 sequential w3c/dapt-reqs#20 15:15:59 github: https://github.com/w3c/dapt-reqs/issues/20 15:17:06 Nigel: This issue is about the diagram. PS4 and PS5 are independent things that can both be done. Cyril's point was that both are done in some workflows 15:17:33 ... Is it OK to do nothing? Should we put a double headed arrow between these boxes? 15:18:54 ... The text looks OK as it says they can be done in parallel 15:20:01 Chris: How to depict either/or in a flowchart? 15:20:34 Nigel: I think either a double headed arrow, or arrows both ways would be enough 15:21:03 Cyril: Happy to do nothing or add an arrow. Want to avoid adding another state that needs a type of script 15:21:13 Nigel: I agree 15:22:00 SUMMARY: @nigelmegitt to add a double-headed arrow between PS4 and PS5 15:22:40 Subtopic: DAPT Test suite 15:23:24 Nigel: As far as I know, there's been no comment. When we're agreed on what the test should have, and the resources we need, we can start drafting PRs. 15:23:39 ... The quickest way forward is to review the planning comments I added 15:24:38 cpn has joined #tt 15:24:41 scribe+ cpn 15:24:56 Cyril: I mentioned last time using some AI tools to do it. I gave it a try, using TTV, seem to be getting there 15:25:15 ... Then we can ask for tests closer to what you expected 15:25:49 ... It makes lots of mistakes! I can put some more time into it, but I'm confident I can produce the validator and some tests 15:26:00 ... Does it meet the implementation criteria?! 15:26:56 s/TTV/ttval/ 15:27:56 ... I can tell you more about it next time, or separately 15:28:35 ... It definitely changes how the spec should be written. Give rules to the AI generator to generate text, and the suite at the same time. For sure it should change how we operate standards 15:29:01 Nigel: You could get the agent to read my comments on the issues and generate tests to match... 15:29:14 ... Anything else on the test suite? 15:29:16 (nothing) 15:29:18 Topic: Add transcription and translation, including subtitles, to the abstract w3c/dapt#290 15:30:42 Nigel: I looked at this again before merging. The change is to the Abstract, when I read it I wondered why not include in production of hard of hearing subtitles? 15:30:54 ... Do we agree to add this in? 15:32:30 Cyril: If we've done subtitles, we should include hard of hearing 15:32:37 Matt: I agree 15:32:48 Nigel: Any other views? 15:32:52 (nothing) 15:33:05 SUMMARY: @nigelmegitt to include hard of hearing subtitles aka closed captions in the abstract 15:33:27 Topic: IMSC 1.3 15:33:55 Nigel: Can we enable PR preview? 15:34:06 https://w3c.github.io/imsc/imsc1/spec/ttml-ww-profiles.html 15:34:30 Atsushi: A config is there so thought it was working 15:35:37 ... we have other bots that haven't been working, so let me check later 15:35:49 Nigel: Are we ready to publish FPWD yet? 15:36:00 Pierre: If we want to remove the image profile, we should do that before FPWD 15:36:14 Nigel: We're expecting feedback 15:36:41 Pierre: The feedback I have so far, no-one has said they're using or care about it 15:37:14 ... Also, when we go about removing it, if it turns out to be hard, we might defer that 15:37:31 Nigel: The main change is to remove a column from the table 15:37:33 Pierre: Yes 15:38:17 Nigel: There has been some email. Something needs changing in CVS? 15:39:02 Atsushi: I'll check on how to get approval to push to CVS 15:39:31 ... Most W3C specs aren't using namespace 15:39:48 Subtopic: Refer ARIB STD-B69 or STD-B62? 15:40:38 Atsushi: I wrote a summary into the issue. There are two documents describing ARIB TTML. The main one is STD-B62 which describes ARIB extensions to TTML, including metadata and ?? 15:41:10 ... There's a recent updated, and extended configuration in the Japanese broadcasting area, e.g. for 4K or 8K satellite broadcasting 15:41:27 ... There's some demand to describe TTML file metadata to attach properties to the entire TTML file 15:41:50 ... STD-B69 is designed to cover such entire file metadata, to be included as a tt:metadata section 15:42:07 ... It only extends the tt:metadata object, but doesn't touch the tt:body content 15:42:47 ... Some extensions to be defined in metadata, but basically B69 is just for extensions to tt:metadata which is not related to ittm, which is metadata related to tt:body content 15:43:08 ... I believe we should refer to STD-B62 for IMSC 1.3 or previous versions 15:43:35 ... So don't need a pull request for IMSC 1.3, but may be good to include B69 and B62 in the charter that's currently under AC review 15:43:57 ... This discussion started because the charter describes B69 15:44:12 https://www.w3.org/2025/04/proposed-timed-text-wg.html#coordination 15:44:49 Nigel: It seems fair to mention both B62 and B69 in the charter 15:45:19 ... Could the Team add a comment on the charter? 15:45:44 Atsushi: It could come from anyone 15:45:53 Chris: The Charter already mentions one but not the other? 15:46:10 .. It makes me wonder if this is too specific for a Charter, mentioning specific documents? 15:46:30 Atsushi: This discussion was initiated by an offline comment on the charter. 15:46:47 .. The last two discussions were that we should investigate if a change is needed to IMSC 1.3 or not. 15:47:02 .. Today's discussion concludes that we do not need to update IMSC 1.3 but we may need to include 15:47:06 .. both in the proposed Charter. 15:47:31 Chris: The charter draft mentions B69 now. 15:47:42 Gary: It says "including ARIB STD-B69" 15:47:54 .. It might be nicer to reference B62 but it probably doesn't matter that much. 15:48:24 Atsushi: It is too narrow a part of the Charter, not too serious, maybe a cosmetic errata. 15:48:40 Chris: I've seen this happen in other group charters where minor issues like this are addressed bu 15:48:45 s/bu/by 15:48:58 .. the team and then the AC responders are asked to confirm they're happy with it. 15:49:05 .. It's better to add both and be explicit about it. 15:49:14 .. I think it should not cause any difficulty in the charter review. 15:49:25 Atsushi: Yes, there is no difficulty but someone needs to raise a comment. 15:49:33 .. Of course I can, but someone needs to raise a comment. 15:50:04 Nigel: So B69 doesn't actually define ARIB-TTML, B62 does that? 15:50:18 Atsushi: Yes, B62 defines the profile, and B69 just extends the metadata. 15:51:16 Nigel: The text at the moment is wrong, probably my fault. 15:51:28 .. The important thing is that we include ARIB in the external organisations. 15:51:36 .. It's just an error at the moment. 15:51:44 Chris: If you need an AC member comment I can do that. 15:51:49 .. I'll just submit a comment. 15:51:55 Atsushi: Thank you for that. 15:52:15 MULTIMEDIA CODING SPECIFICATION 15:52:15 FOR DIGITAL BROADCASTING 15:52:15 (SECOND GENERATION) 15:52:18 -> https://www.arib.or.jp/english/std_tr/broadcasting/std-b62.html ARIB STD-B62 15:52:34 Nigel: Thank you! 15:52:39 Atsushi: Thank you for that. 15:53:23 Topic: Charter review 15:53:36 Nigel: Please ask your AC reps to review 15:54:06 ... It's really helpful to have organisations who participate in the group to respond to the charter 15:55:08 Chris: Could email specific AC reps or the MEIG list 15:55:58 Pierre: For spec maintenance work, I think the team should instruct members to vote yes. Otherwise important maintenance won't happen 15:56:38 Atsushi: Most charter AC reviews get 5-10% of member organisations submitting responses 15:57:23 Topic: TPAC 2025 planning 15:58:07 Gary: TPAC 2025 will be 10 to 14 November 2025 in Kobe, Japan 15:58:26 q+ important change, there is slight change about meeting time for groups, reduced around 1h for some weekdays 15:58:32 .. We have until June 20 to say if we're meeting and which slots we want to request. 15:58:36 Gary: There's nothing we have to do today. TPAC is November 10-14 in Kobe, Japan. Planning has started, we have until June 20th to ask for meeting time. 15:58:42 .. There are 4 slots per day except on wednesday. 15:58:51 .. We need to say which groups we want to avoid conflict with. 15:59:41 Nigel: We have 3 calls before that deadline. Good to do as soon as possible. Please think about it, whether you'd attend or not 16:00:13 Gary: Also potential topics, which informs the number of slots we want. Because it's in Japan, people in Europe or US might not attend remotely 16:00:33 ... So if we don't have many people in person, we'll need to figure out whether to meet 16:01:17 Topic: Meeting close 16:01:26 Nigel: Next meeting is 22nd May 16:01:41 .. Thanks everyone [adjourns meeting] 16:02:34 q? 16:04:11 rrsagent, make minutes 16:04:13 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/08-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:54:08 S/Topic: Introduction// 16:56:59 i/Nigel: There has been some email./Nigel: We will wait for feedback before publishing FPWD then. 16:57:39 s/There has been some email./What about the namespace documents? Ah, there has been some email. 16:59:11 rrsagent, make minutes 16:59:12 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/08-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:59:56 scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 17:00:05 zakim, end meeting 17:00:05 As of this point the attendees have been Nigel, Atsushi, Chris_Needham, Gary, Matt, Pierre, Andreas, Cyril 17:00:07 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 17:00:08 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/08-tt-minutes.html Zakim 17:00:14 I am happy to have been of service, nigel; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 17:00:15 Zakim has left #tt 17:00:24 rrsagent, excuse us 17:00:24 I see no action items