12:43:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-profile
12:43:31 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-irc
12:43:35 <kaz> meeting: WoT Profile
12:43:40 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
12:43:43 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:43:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
12:44:03 <luca_barbato> luca_barbato has joined #wot-profile
12:56:24 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura
12:56:26 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:56:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:03:40 <sebastian> sebastian has joined #wot-profile
13:03:54 <kaz> present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch, Ben_Francis, Josh_Thomas, Luca_Barbato
13:03:56 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:03:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:04:04 <dape> dape has joined #wot-profile
13:04:12 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
13:04:22 <kaz> present+ David_Ezell
13:04:24 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:04:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:04:59 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner
13:06:53 <kaz> chair: Ben
13:07:22 <kaz> scribenick: sebastian
13:07:26 <sebastian> topic: Minutes
13:07:44 <benfrancis> Minutes approved
13:08:10 <sebastian> BF: any objections on the last minutes?
13:08:11 <sebastian> <no>
13:08:28 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot-profile
13:08:49 <kaz> i|Minutes ap|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/10/09-wot-profile-minutes.html Minutes from the meeting on Oct 9, 2024|
13:08:55 <benfrancis> "A [profile is a] technical specification which provides a set of assertions such that any Consumer which conforms with the those assertions is out-of-the-box interoperable with any Thing which also conforms with those assertions."
13:09:09 <sebastian> topic: WoT Profiles 2025 Planning
13:09:14 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:09:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:09:21 <sebastian> <BF shows a presentation>
13:09:27 <sebastian> -> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1ZbC3vg2BJqFuEXLAoKJG47u3s-tgXA6P8LGy0kJN6EY/edit?usp=sharing
13:09:28 <kaz> s/topic: WoT Profiles 2025 Planning//
13:09:35 <kaz> i|technical spec|topic: WoT Profiles 2025 Planning|
13:09:47 <kaz> s/sharing/sharing Ben's slides/
13:10:16 <sebastian> BF: Profile definition from WoT Architecture 1.1:
13:10:28 <sebastian> ... "A [profile is a] technical specification which provides a set of assertions such that any Consumer which conforms with the those assertions is out-of-the-box interoperable with any Thing which also conforms with those assertions.”
13:10:46 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:10:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:10:53 <sebastian> BF: There are questions:
13:11:07 <sebastian> ... should we continue to pursue the existing WoT Profiles 1.0 specification along the recommendation track
13:11:10 <sebastian> ... or
13:11:24 <sebastian> ... publish WoT Profiles 1.0 as a non-normative Working Group Note and start to work on use cases & requirements for WoT Profiles 2.0 instead?
13:11:28 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster, Tomoaki_Mizushima
13:11:29 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:11:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:11:47 <cris1> cris1 has joined #wot-profile
13:12:08 <sebastian> BF: Issues with WoT Profile 1.0
13:12:25 <sebastian> ... extends as well as constrains what is possible with a Thing Description alone
13:12:41 <sebastian> ... is limited by the features of Thing Description 1.x
13:12:49 <kaz> i|Profile definition from|[slide 2]|
13:12:50 <sebastian> ... not enough implementations
13:12:53 <dape> q+
13:13:04 <kaz> i|There are questions|[slide 2]
13:13:06 <sebastian> BF: are there more issues?
13:13:06 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:13:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:13:14 <sebastian> q+
13:13:14 <benfrancis> q?
13:13:21 <dezell> dezell has joined #wot-profile
13:13:30 <dezell> q?
13:13:49 <dezell> present+ David_Ezell
13:14:01 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:14:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:14:08 <sebastian> DP: what is written covers so far the most
13:14:20 <dezell> q+
13:14:22 <kaz> s/slide 2/slide 3/
13:14:43 <kaz> i|Issues with WoT Profile|[slide 3]|
13:14:55 <kaz> s/slide 3/slide 4/
13:14:58 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:14:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:15:05 <benfrancis> q?
13:15:30 <sebastian> ... if the Profile is a subset of a TD then everything is ok
13:15:34 <dape> ack dape
13:16:01 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:16:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:16:13 <benfrancis> sebastian: Have the same view as Daniel. Express this as a wish. If go for a Profile specification, should be designed in such a way that it is not confusing.
13:16:23 <kaz> i/Have the/scribenick: benfracis/
13:16:25 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:16:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:16:32 <benfrancis> Specification documents TD 1.1, bindings etc. Should work smoothly with each other
13:16:50 <kaz> s/benfrancis/benfrancis/
13:16:52 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:16:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:16:59 <benfrancis> Shouldn't have conflicting definitions or features in the Profile which only work with a Profile definition but not core TD specification.
13:17:30 <kaz> i|Have the same|scribenick: benfrancis|
13:17:32 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:17:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:17:39 <benfrancis> Concern: Currently TD assumes everything specified in the TD document, no assumptions about the payload description for example. There are currently assumptions, e.g. about async actions.
13:18:09 <benfrancis> For user of Thing Descriptions, getting confused. If expecting a specific payload structure, not in the TD. Should not conflict with idea or principle of TD.
13:18:15 <kaz> s/Shouldn't/... Shouldn't/
13:18:34 <kaz> s/Concern:/... Concern/
13:18:41 <kaz> s/For user/... For user/
13:18:43 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:18:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:18:58 <benfrancis> q?
13:18:59 <kaz> q+
13:19:03 <kaz> ack seb
13:19:22 <kaz> s/Specification documents/... Specification documents/
13:19:25 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:19:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:19:48 <sebastian> BF: there are already assumptions in the TD because there are and there are also default binding as well as default payload binding including default methods
13:19:59 <kaz> i|slide 2|subtopic: Definition|
13:20:08 <kaz> i|slide 3|subtopic: Questions|
13:20:21 <sebastian> ... profile defines separate set of assumtions, I think that where the problem lies
13:20:26 <kaz> i|slide 4|subtopic: Issues|
13:20:28 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:20:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:20:52 <kaz> i|there are already|scribenick: sebastian|
13:20:54 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:20:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:22:29 <sebastian> DE: we hoping with Profile how subscribing implementations works. This would help developer. Current version of Profile explains server side event implementations.
13:22:36 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:22:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:23:23 <kaz> q?
13:23:59 <benfrancis> q?
13:24:01 <kaz> ack de
13:24:02 <sebastian> ... Conexxus does not make implementations but create standards that our implementer members can take
13:24:36 <sebastian> BF: you have great use cases for Profiles
13:24:46 <benfrancis> q?
13:24:50 <kaz> ack k
13:25:12 <sebastian> ... we need to manage all the different concepts like binding, semantic contexts, thing models, etc.
13:25:28 <sebastian> Kaz: agree we all comments so far
13:26:20 <sebastian> ... profiles should not extend the capability
13:26:20 <kaz> s/so far/so far. personally, don't think Profile should "extend" TD itself, but should concentrate on describing "how to use TD for actual applications", but would like to hear from you a bit more./
13:26:50 <kaz> subtopic: Profiles 2.0
13:27:01 <sebastian> <BF shows a Profile 2.0 Strawman Proposal>
13:27:11 <kaz> i|shows|[slide 7]|
13:27:17 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:27:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:27:26 <sebastian> BF: A simpler and more structured approach
13:27:35 <sebastian> ... move content of protocol binding sections into Binding Templates as defaults, referenced from Profiles
13:27:41 <kaz> s/... profiles should not extend the capability//
13:27:43 <kaz> q?
13:27:46 <kaz> q+ david
13:27:58 <sebastian> ... core specification which defines the profiling mechanism and a registry of profiles
13:28:00 <benfrancis> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-wg/2024Feb/0000.html
13:28:09 <benfrancis> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1msgUZSrniTrgVieU2i_V2804gqvVsHrYByTv-OET1l8/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.71drcnjjomtn
13:28:11 <sebastian> ... individual profile documents constrain specific extension points of Thing Descriptions
13:28:17 <benfrancis> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LjBWiqQZXi85gXP2NNckQni5os6dwxW6UDGrZDb3cns/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.71drcnjjomtn
13:28:37 <kaz> s|https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-wg/2024Feb/0000.html|-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-wg/2024Feb/0000.html Ben's message on rebooting Profile|
13:29:28 <sebastian> q+
13:29:37 <Cris> Cris has joined #wot-profile
13:30:05 <benfrancis> q?
13:30:06 <kaz> s|https://docs.google.com/document/d/1msgUZSrniTrgVieU2i_V2804gqvVsHrYByTv-OET1l8/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.71drcnjjomtn|-> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1msgUZSrniTrgVieU2i_V2804gqvVsHrYByTv-OET1l8/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.71drcnjjomtn Strawman Proposal for "HTTP Protocol Binding 2.0"
13:30:10 <kaz> ack da
13:30:13 <luca_barbato> +1
13:30:19 <luca_barbato> q+
13:30:32 <luca_barbato> s/+1//
13:30:54 <kaz> s|https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LjBWiqQZXi85gXP2NNckQni5os6dwxW6UDGrZDb3cns/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.71drcnjjomtn|-> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LjBWiqQZXi85gXP2NNckQni5os6dwxW6UDGrZDb3cns/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.71drcnjjomtn Strawman Proposal for "HTTP Basic Profile 2.0"|
13:31:11 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:31:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:31:36 <kaz> subtopic: Preservere or Pivot
13:31:38 <benfrancis> sebastian: Regarding 2.0 strawman proposal. What I see so far I quite like. Move out the protocol related topics, put them in protocol binding template. Profile documents only pick the definitions/building blocks. Explain what they constrain. Not examined in detail yet, right direction.
13:32:05 <kaz> i/Regarding/[slide 8]/
13:32:08 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:32:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:32:24 <kaz> i|Regarding|scribenick: benfrancis|
13:32:25 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:32:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:32:36 <sebastian> BF: Pros for a 1.0 REC
13:32:48 <sebastian> ... Interoperability for WoT 1.x specifications
13:32:51 <kaz> i|Pros|scribenick: sebastian|
13:32:52 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:32:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:33:00 <sebastian> BF: cons ...
13:33:09 <sebastian> ... Either extends other WoT 1.x specifications or is very limited in features
13:33:21 <sebastian> ... May not be worth publishing if it doesn’t go much beyond HTTP binding in TD spec
13:33:40 <sebastian> BF: pros publishing as 1.0 Note
13:33:48 <sebastian> ... Don’t waste time refining and publishing something that may not get implemented
13:33:51 <benfrancis> q?
13:33:55 <sebastian> ... Profiles 2.0 could work better with Binding Templates and benefit from TD 2.0 features
13:34:08 <kaz> q?
13:34:50 <kaz> q+
13:35:34 <benfrancis> sebastian: Personal opinion is that we go with a 1.0 Note publication because it simplifies everything regarding publication. Already a lot of material and content available, would avoid the requirement of implementations. Would still need to clarify topics we raised at the beginning of the meeting, would like to work more on 2.0 which is aligned
13:35:34 <benfrancis> with 2.0.
13:35:53 <kaz> i/Personal op/scribenick: benfrancis/
13:36:01 <kaz> s/with 2.0.//
13:36:10 <benfrancis> Would prefer to go with Note for now, quick publication clarifying remaining points. Go for 2.0. Question: What happens to 1.0? Deprecated.
13:36:16 <kaz> s/is aligned/is aligned with 2.0./
13:36:23 <kaz> s/Would/... Would/
13:36:26 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:36:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:36:33 <benfrancis> q?
13:36:34 <kaz> ack se
13:37:15 <sebastian> LB: We have no consenus on 1.0 REC publication, support Note publication
13:37:48 <sebastian> ... regarding implementation I will probably provide the 2nd implementation
13:37:55 <kaz> i|We have no|scribenick: sebastian|
13:37:57 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:37:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:38:20 <sebastian> ... main concern is the paper work
13:38:23 <dape> q+
13:38:25 <benfrancis> q?
13:38:26 <kaz> ack lu
13:38:49 <sebastian> ... I would just focus on getting everything right for 2.0 REC
13:38:50 <benfrancis> q?
13:38:55 <kaz> ack k
13:39:01 <luca_barbato> s/I will provide/I wrote/
13:39:11 <kaz> s/aligned with 2.0/aligned with TD 2.0/
13:39:11 <Mizushima> q+
13:39:12 <sebastian> Kaz: Agree with the comments. Let's go for 2.0
13:39:13 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:39:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:40:34 <kaz> s/with the comments. L/with both. In addition, "interoperability" for WoT specs should be guaranteed by the WoT specs themselves like TD, so l/
13:40:46 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:40:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:40:53 <sebastian> DP: 2.0 should work smoothly together with what we re going to create in the future. We need also someone that is actively working on the TD side and on the Binding side. Sync is needed closely
13:40:53 <dape> ack dape
13:41:05 <benfrancis> q?
13:41:09 <sebastian> BF: agree about this
13:41:36 <kaz> s/will probably provide/wrote/
13:41:38 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:41:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:41:47 <sebastian> TM: I agree with the comments.
13:42:14 <kaz> s/, so let's/. So let's/
13:42:19 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:42:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:42:26 <sebastian> ... if we not have everything for REC we should make a Group Note
13:42:44 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:42:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:43:00 <benfrancis> q?
13:43:03 <kaz> ack m
13:43:55 <kaz> subtopic: Proposed resolution
13:43:58 <kaz> [slide 9]
13:44:03 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:44:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:44:59 <sebastian> BF: it seems that we have consensus. We can send a respolution to the email list and approve the resolution in the next main call
13:45:05 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2023/10/wot-wg-2023.html WoT WG Charter
13:45:09 <kaz> q+
13:45:24 <benfrancis> Proposed resolution: The WoT Profiles Task Force will aim to publish WoT Profiles 1.0 as a Working Group Note by July 2025 and write Use Cases & Requirements for WoT Profiles 2.0 by October 2025
13:45:38 <benfrancis> q?
13:45:49 <sebastian> +1
13:45:53 <Cris> +1
13:45:57 <luca_barbato> +1
13:45:58 <dezell> +1
13:46:02 <sebastian> BF: any comments or objections?
13:46:04 <kaz> +1
13:46:07 <dape> +1
13:46:14 <Mizushima> +1
13:46:14 <jthomas> +1
13:46:15 <dezell> q+
13:46:33 <dape> q?
13:46:35 <kaz> q- later
13:47:27 <sebastian> DE: just want to say thank you. I think this is a great work
13:47:36 <dape> q+
13:47:39 <kaz> ack de
13:47:44 <kaz> q- later
13:48:39 <sebastian> SK: we have 3 months, seems ok for the Note publication
13:49:03 <sebastian> BF: suggest to have meetings every 2weeks
13:49:56 <dape> ack dape
13:49:57 <sebastian> DP: are there any pressing issue that need to be clearify?
13:50:10 <benfrancis> q?
13:50:41 <kaz> s/clearify/clarify/
13:50:42 <kaz> q-
13:50:49 <sebastian> BF: there are some things that I wasn't completely happy about webhooks
13:51:09 <sebastian> topic: next steps
13:51:24 <kaz> q+
13:51:30 <sebastian> BF: Propose our resolution by email today with a view to passing the resolution in the WoT Main call next week
13:51:41 <sebastian> ... hold a meeting next week to triage issues and create a more detailed plan
13:51:43 <dezell> +1
13:51:55 <sebastian> ... propose meetings every two weeks after that, with most collaboration happening asynchronously on GitHub
13:52:06 <sebastian> BF: is it ok to have the call every 2weeks?
13:52:36 <kaz> ack k
13:53:31 <benfrancis> Resolution: The WoT Profiles Task Force will aim to publish WoT Profiles 1.0 as a Working Group Note by July 2025 and write Use Cases & Requirements for WoT Profiles 2.0 by October 2025
13:54:28 <kaz> i|Resolution|kaz: OK with the 2nd and 3rd point, but regarding the 1st point, I'd suggest we make our own TF-wide resolution during this call now given we have 10 people here :)|
13:54:30 <sebastian>  BF: 2.0 work will have close collaboaration with Use Case, TD and Binding TF
13:54:34 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:54:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:54:43 <kaz> q+
13:54:43 <benfrancis> q?
13:54:43 <sebastian> BF: any other comments?
13:55:11 <kaz> ack k
13:55:19 <sebastian> Kaz: if needed we can extend the WG period, e.g., such as 3 more months
13:55:52 <sebastian> BF: there is a WoT Community Discord channel. Link is provided at the wiki
13:56:39 <kaz> s/, e.g., such as 3 more months/based on the need and our progress in 3 months./
13:56:44 <kaz> [adjourned]
13:56:49 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:56:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/07-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz