18:02:31 RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg 18:02:35 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/05/06-aria-apg-irc 18:02:35 RRSAgent, make logs Public 18:02:36 Meeting: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force 18:02:37 jongund has joined #aria-apg 18:02:40 present+ jugglinmike 18:02:42 scribe+ jugglinmike 18:02:47 present+ jongund 18:03:07 Siri has joined #aria-apg 18:03:26 present+ Siri 18:03:53 Topic: Setup and Review Agenda 18:03:57 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/May-6%2C-2025-Agenda 18:04:48 Matt_King has joined #aria-apg 18:04:55 present+ Matt_King 18:08:27 Matt_King: Any requests to change the agenda? 18:08:34 Matt_King: Hearing none, we'll stick with the agenda as planned 18:09:05 Matt_King: Next meeting: May 13 18:09:14 Topic: Publication planning 18:09:24 Matt_King: The publication status hasn't changed much since last week 18:09:37 Matt_King: We're still on-track to publish on May 29 18:10:02 Matt_King: We have review pending on color settings, and there are a few pull requests on today's agenda which are marked for the upcoming release, as well 18:11:02 Matt_King: It seems as though I have some record-keeping to do for this milestone 18:11:52 Matt_King: Any questions on the plans for the next publication? 18:12:24 Matt_King: Hearing none, we'll move on 18:12:32 Topic: PR 3249 - Add HTML search to landmark practice 18:12:38 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/3249 18:12:46 Matt_King: This is ready-to-merge except for this lint error 18:13:01 Matt_King: Adam looked into it and found that there is a known bug (and even a corresponding pull request) for the linter we use 18:13:15 Matt_King: If I merge it, though, then every single pull request will have lint errors 18:16:11 eslint command: // eslint-disable-next-line 18:17:24 Matt_King: I'm wondering if we should include an "ignore rule" for this error in order to merge this patch 18:17:45 jugglinmike: I'm curious to see how tightly we can constrain this ignore rule 18:18:09 jugglinmike: If we can ignore this specific instance, then there's little risk 18:19:22 jugglinmike: But if we have to wholesale ignore every instance of invalid parent-child relationships, indiscriminately throughout the project, then I'd be wary of doing so. If we ignored in the problem in that way, we would be putting ourselves at-risk for regressions 18:21:14 [group reviews the APG repository's .vnurc file] 18:22:52 jugglinmike: This mechanism does appear to apply across the entire project. But because the directives include the complete error message to be ignored, I think the risk of ignoring future regressions is low (the directive will include the element name "search", and Matt_King has pointed out that the APG is unlikely to use the "search" element elsewhere) 18:23:49 Matt_King: Maybe we can experiment with this new "ignore rule" in the pull request that's blocked by the linting error 18:24:13 Matt_King: We should include a comment that has a link to the pull request for the linter which fixes the underlying problem 18:25:10 Matt_King: It should say that we made this change in order to merge pull request #3249. And then link to the known validator issue. That would let us find all the information we need in the future 18:25:32 jongund: Or we could make an issue in APG with all the relevant information and then point to that 18:25:34 Matt_King: Sounds good 18:25:38 jongund: I'll give it a try 18:25:47 Matt_King: Awesome. We'll re-assign this from Adam to you 18:27:10 Matt_King: Thank you for your help with this! Hopefully we can get this cleared up and then merge it 18:27:17 Topic: PR 3258 - Fix slider to remove redundant announcement of value by screen readers 18:27:27 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/3258 18:28:09 Matt_King: The link checker is failing 18:28:36 Matt_King: howard-e raised an issue that is related. I didn't add a link here, though 18:32:20 Matt_King: Can you take your changes out of your pull request, jongund? 18:32:22 jongund: Sure 18:32:31 Matt_King: I also wonder if howard-e's existing pull request will address this 18:32:55 jugglinmike: The error here is due to links with a different domain: tpgi.com 18:33:16 Matt_King: That's the same destination. The company changed addresses 18:33:31 Matt_King: howard-e's relevant patch is https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/3264 18:34:09 jugglinmike: We can get this reviewed internally and get it merged as part of our maintenance work 18:34:15 Matt_King: Great! 18:34:34 Matt_King: If you do that, and jongund makes his change, then pull request 3258 will be almost ready to go 18:34:41 Matt_King: It's still pending reviews, though 18:36:50 Matt_King: Jem is listed as reviewer twice on this pull request! 18:36:53 Matt_King: That's strange 18:37:03 Matt_King: But I think it's fine that this patch only has one reviewer 18:37:12 jongund: I've updated the patch as you request 18:37:17 Matt_King: Awesome. Thank you, jongund 18:37:37 Matt_King: We're wait on a review of 3264 and then a review from Jem. If we don't hear from Jem next week, we'll touch base next week 18:37:51 Topic: PR 3251 - New expandable region pattern 18:37:59 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/3251 18:38:07 Matt_King: Adam added a comment about some linting problems 18:38:50 Matt_King: It says that there are related issues in the linter. "Allow paragraphs in group" and "false positive for a valid role=image" 18:38:58 Matt_King: I wonder if those are the two things that are failing here 18:39:13 Matt_King: It says "some checks not successful", but oh, there's five failing 18:39:53 Matt_King: The coverage report check is failing. I haven't seen that in a while. How does that happen? 18:40:25 Matt_King: index.html coverage... Is this index generation or coverage report generation? 18:41:48 jongund: Looks like someone tried to manually change the coverage report even though it's automatically generated 18:42:30 Matt_King: "13 files changed"... I honestly forget how we handle this in the build process. It's a little tricky 18:42:42 jongund: There must have been some manual changes to the coverage file... 18:43:38 jongund: He could just restore the original file from the "main" branch and see if it builds 18:45:30 Matt_King: We might want to take lessons learned from modifying the .vnurc file in the patch we considered earlier in this meeting 18:46:46 Matt_King: If the validator is this buggy, then it almost starts to seem like more trouble than it's worth! I'm mostly joking, though--the truth is, it catches a lot of potential errors 18:48:01 Topic: Issue 2835 - Restructuring landmark examples 18:48:08 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2835 18:48:24 Matt_King: jongund has a pull request related to this, but I was imagining that we would take a very different approach to the solution 18:48:45 jongund: The approach that I was going to try (I don't know when I will have time) was to create an example page that had source code as its primary content 18:48:55 jongund: I don't know how that will interfere with the environment 18:49:15 Matt_King: Well, there are a couple of things that we could do instead of putting source code there 18:50:26 Matt_King: There are some parts of the example template that we could modify. We could take out the "source code" section, for example 18:50:57 Matt_King: I'm imagining that we put the source code example in (so it ends up becoming a bunch of named entities), but I liked before where we had these buttons that would highlight the landmarks on the page 18:52:02 Matt_King: I'm kind of wondering, though. If you look at any example page--e.g. the example for the accordion. On this page, the landmarks we have are "banner", "navigation", "main", "complimentary"... 18:52:12 Matt_King: We could show how the current page uses landmarks visually 18:52:24 jongund: I think we want code examples. I think it's important for people to know 18:52:33 Matt_King: We already have that code on the "practices" page, though 18:52:49 Matt_King: We could eliminate the "landmarks" examples entirely and just tell people to look at the practices page 18:53:13 jongund: I think the important information on the current "patterns" pages is, "what to screen readers do with this stuff?" and links to tools that allow people to analyze them 18:53:25 Matt_King: We can add a section to the "practices" pages for that 18:53:54 jongund: Just as long as we have something like this, so that at least people who have never used a screen reader can have an idea of what the user experience is like 18:54:03 Matt_King: I want to really trim down the external links 18:54:49 Matt_King: We might be able to solve this whole problem by just adding one or two sections to the current "practices" page. Content that's unique to what's currently in the examples subdirectly 18:55:05 Matt_King: We could leave the pattern page there in its current form, or we could remove it entirely 18:55:26 Matt_King: Maybe because this is so important, we should talk about the landmarks on the patterns page 18:55:49 jongund: I think that solves the problem for the APG. That's good--it's been an outlier for a long time. 18:56:16 jongund: But FYI, I would probably take what we have in the current "patterns" page and create a little website that's unaffiliated with the W3C 18:56:25 jongund: And maybe update the look and feel a little bit 18:57:00 jongund: We have enough problems maintaining the APG. I think it's a good idea 18:57:34 Matt_King: I want to make sure we are getting users information that they find helpful. I want the APG to be actionable and helpful. I think the current "practices" page provides a lot of helpful information; we can supplement it 18:57:50 Matt_King: For the ARIA-AT work, they will have to be standalone examples. That might be better, anyway 18:58:02 Matt_King: But that's a whole different topic 18:58:34 Matt_King: So yes, if you can move in that direction with your pull request (whether that means creating a brand new pull request or retrofitting your existing one), that would be great 18:59:15 Matt_King: Thank you for helping to make this a very productive meeting, jongund! 19:04:46 Zakim, end the meeting 19:04:46 As of this point the attendees have been jugglinmike, jongund, Siri, Matt_King 19:04:49 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 19:04:50 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/05/06-aria-apg-minutes.html Zakim 19:04:57 I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 19:04:57 Zakim has left #aria-apg 19:05:59 RRSAgent, leave 19:05:59 I see no action items