13:25:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ixml
13:25:50 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/04/29-ixml-irc
13:25:54 <Steven> rrsagent, make logs public
13:26:44 <Steven> Meeting: Invisible XML Community Group
13:26:44 <Steven> Chair: Steven
13:26:58 <Steven> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2025Apr/0009
13:27:07 <Steven> Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/04/15-ixml-minutes
13:27:18 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
13:27:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/29-ixml-minutes.html Steven
13:50:24 <nico> nico has joined #ixml
13:55:18 <norm> norm has joined #ixml
14:00:17 <Steven> Present: Norm, Bethan, Nico, Steven, David
14:00:56 <Steven> Regrets: John
14:01:58 <Steven> Topic: Accept the minutes of the previous meeting
14:02:03 <Steven> [Accepted]
14:02:36 <Steven> Topic: Review of open actions
14:03:06 <Steven> Steven: I have done some research on the disambiguation operators
14:03:45 <Steven> ... see the paper
14:04:49 <Steven> https://ics-archive.science.uu.nl/research/techreps/repo/CS-2001/2001-39.pdf
14:05:31 <Steven> Norm: If that code is open source, it would be good to know.
14:06:05 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to find out if GLL parser is open source
14:06:31 <Steven> Topic: Status reports
14:06:35 <Steven> [None]
14:06:55 <Steven> Topic: New open issues
14:07:03 <Steven> Issie #295, ixml or iXML?
14:08:10 <Steven> s/Iss #295/Issue #302/
14:09:16 <Steven> Steven: I don;t see why it is an issue. It has always been ixml up to now
14:09:25 <Steven> Norm: It's not a hill I want to die on.
14:09:32 <Steven> s/;/'/
14:09:57 <Steven> Norm: It is split 60/30
14:10:26 <Steven> David: Is there a rule about what can and cannot be changed?
14:10:46 <Steven> ... a switch to mixed case now would change what has been established.
14:11:27 <Steven> ... In unicode there is a principle that character names cannot be changed.
14:12:44 <Steven> Norm: What's in the draft is clearly a change
14:13:20 <Steven> Bethan: We should listen to the community as well.
14:13:44 <Steven> Steven: We normally work on consensus. A change gets made is everyone can live with it.
14:16:36 <Steven> Steven: We close this issue, with no change.
14:17:26 <Steven> Topic: Perspectives on serialization
14:17:26 <Steven>   See https://github.com/invisibleXML/ixml/pull/296
14:20:46 <Steven> Steven: I have read it it, but I have some suggestions
14:21:17 <Steven> ... I don't think it covers what I had intended when I wrote "serialisation"
14:21:52 <Steven> ... so I plan to produce an edited version
14:22:06 <Steven> [Discussion on what serilaization means]
14:22:33 <Steven> s/serilaization/serialization/
14:23:08 <Steven> Topic: Pragmas
14:23:46 <Steven> https://github.com/invisibleXML/ixml/blob/master/proposals/pragma_req.md
14:24:20 <Steven> The legal form of a pragma name must be defined in the specification.
14:24:51 <Steven> [Agreed]
14:24:58 <Steven> The structure of the optional pragma data following the pragma name must not be defined in the specification.
14:25:23 <Steven> There must be a mechanism by which implementers can ensure that a chosen pragma name will not conflict with any pragma name used in other implementations.
14:25:34 <Steven> David: How?
14:25:45 <Steven> ... is it possible to ensure it?
14:26:15 <Steven> Bethan: namespace-like
14:26:32 <Steven> Norm: Namespaces allows an insurance.
14:26:47 <Steven> ... domain names in reverse order is also possible
14:28:27 <Steven> Simplicity of syntax and semantics should be the most important priority in adding pragmas to iXML.
14:28:47 <Steven> Bethan: Not sure how easy it is to judge
14:29:35 <Steven> ... a problem is two proposals where one was simpler
14:30:23 <Steven> Steven: "of importance" would be fine
14:30:42 <Steven> The processor need not inform the user that it has encountered an unrecognized pragma.
14:31:13 <Steven> Norm: Implementation issue, but not by default
14:31:27 <Steven> Recognized but ill-formed pragmas need not cause the parse to fail, or cause the processor to issue a warning. That is, if a processor recognizes a pragma identifier, but the pragma data cannot be parsed successfully as input to the relevant code block, the response is wholly a matter for the implementer.
14:33:09 <Steven> Bethan: No requirement that an illformed pragma causes the processor to stop\
14:33:13 <Steven> s/\//
14:34:14 <Steven> A pragma’s attachment to a specific syntactic construct must be unambiguous to software for parsing iXML grammars.]
14:35:34 <Steven> Nico: My question is if this can be implementation specific
14:42:53 <Steven> [Discussion on "Attachment"]
14:43:22 <Steven> Davis: ABOUT IMPLEMENTATIONS AGGREEING ON PRAGMAS. hOW WOULD THAT AGREEMENT BE RECOGNISED WITH POINT 15?
14:44:13 <Steven> s/ABOUT IMPLEMENTATIONS AGGREEING ON PRAGMAS. hOW WOULD THAT AGREEMENT BE RECOGNISED WITH POINT 15??About implementations agreeing on pragmas, how would that agreement be reconciled with point 15?/
14:44:42 <Steven> \Norm: A unique name insures you won't have mismatching semantyics
14:44:48 <Steven> s/yics/ics/
14:45:00 <Steven> s/\Norm/Norm/
14:45:38 <Steven> Bethan: Collaborative decisions, shoudl use a combined space
14:45:46 <Steven> s/shoudl/should/
14:46:44 <Steven> Nico: 20 implies 19.
14:47:29 <Steven> ... when you place a pragma in the linear notation, would that be enough to require it to be in the same location in the XML notation?
14:48:35 <Steven> Bethan: We separate syntax and semantics already.
14:48:58 <Steven> Nico: I could make a pragma that depends on all parsing that has gone before
14:49:19 <Steven> ... so then it doesn't depend on a particular construct
14:56:19 <Steven> [Long discussion of attachment and whether it is required or optional]
14:56:23 <Steven> [ADJORN]
14:56:46 <Steven> s/ADJORN/ADJOURN/
14:56:57 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:56:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/29-ixml-minutes.html Steven
14:58:40 <Steven> s/Davis/David/
14:59:12 <Steven> s/ABOUT IMPLEMENTATIONS AGGREEING ON PRAGMAS. hOW WOULD THAT AGREEMENT BE RECOGNISED WITH POINT 15?/About implementations agreeing on pragmas, how would that agreement be reconciled with point 15?/
14:59:18 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:59:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/29-ixml-minutes.html Steven