12:53:54 RRSAgent has joined #global-inclusion 12:53:59 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/04/23-global-inclusion-irc 12:53:59 RRSAgent, make logs Public 12:54:00 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Jan 12:54:09 chair: Jan_McSorley 12:54:32 Meeting: Internationalization Accessibility Community Group (global-inclusion) 12:54:42 date: 23 04 2025 12:54:52 regrets: Frankie 12:54:58 zakim, clear agenda 12:54:58 agenda cleared 12:55:23 Agenda+ Review structure research 12:55:52 Agenda+ Develop a concise explanation of the CG's concerns regarding headings in the structure draft 12:56:16 Agenda+ Review the suggested location of guidance for international audiences (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GwIadQU2rmDwqPDeYX6PF7UjnD4D47vqRjvPysXNe-A/edit?usp=sharing) 12:56:24 present+ 13:00:10 chiace has joined #global-inclusion 13:00:22 Philipp has joined #global-inclusion 13:00:30 present + 13:00:40 present+ 13:03:13 JStro has joined #global-inclusion 13:03:32 Jean has joined #global-inclusion 13:03:40 present+ 13:04:03 Makoto has joined #global-inclusion 13:04:09 +present 13:04:46 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GwIadQU2rmDwqPDeYX6PF7UjnD4D47vqRjvPysXNe-A/edit?usp=sharing 13:05:25 andy has joined #global-inclusion 13:05:31 present+ 13:12:54 zakim, next item 13:12:54 agendum 1 -- Review structure research -- taken up [from Jan] 13:27:10 Philipp: As a person with dyslexia, having words repeated, makes it more difficult to scan. Nothing stands out when you use "make" and "use" repeatedly. 13:28:28 JohnK: Yes, we might be using lazy writing. Something like "Design the page to be clear." We need more thought in the action verb to differentiate (design or organize). 13:28:42 Andy: As long as we don't just repeat new words. 13:30:01 Andy: Some languages only have one word for "make" and would not be used as this is intended in the current wording. 13:33:22 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GwIadQU2rmDwqPDeYX6PF7UjnD4D47vqRjvPysXNe-A/edit?usp=sharing 13:52:42 Philipp has joined #global-inclusion 13:57:36 kirkwood has joined #global-inclusion 13:57:40 Regarding the compromise of making higher-level headings be formatted as an outcome (e.g. "Design is Clear" - h3), this is a good compromise that supports scanning and way finding, as long as these headings are worded in this way and not as one or two-word headings without a description. With one or two-word headings, if you have to read an entire 13:57:40 bulleted list to understand what the heading means, then that causes problems with international audiences. Writing lower-level headings in active voice ("Make the purpose of the page clear." - h5) is good if you don't repeat the action words so that they appear to be filler. Use something like "Design the page to be clear." If you agree with this, 13:57:40 please put +1, if you disagree -1, if you think this needs additional discussion, please enter 0. 13:57:42 +1 13:57:44 +1 13:57:45 +1 13:57:47 +1 13:57:58 +1 13:58:37 +1 13:59:05 from an internationalization perspective 14:02:06 Regarding the compromise of making higher-level headings be formatted as an outcome (e.g. "Design is Clear" - h3), this is a good compromise that supports scanning and way finding, as long as these headings are worded in this way and not as one or two-word headings without a description. With one or two-word headings, if you have to read an entire 14:02:06 [09:57am] Jan: bulleted list to understand what the heading means, then that causes problems with international audiences. Writing lower-level headings in active voice ("Make the purpose of the page clear." - h5) is good if you don't repeat the action words so that they appear to be filler. Use something like "Design the page to be clear." If you agree with this, 14:02:53 my thoughts 14:03:24 Using higher-level headings formatted as outcomes (e.g., "Design is Clear" as an H3) is a strong compromise that supports both scanning and wayfinding. However, it's important that these headings are phrased as complete outcomes, not just one- or two-word labels. Short, vague headings often require users to read the entire bulleted list to understand the context, which can be especially problematic for international audiences. For lo[CUT] 14:03:24 headings, use active voice (e.g., "Make the purpose of the page clear") to communicate intent clearly and directly. 14:03:52 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:03:54 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/23-global-inclusion-minutes.html Jan 14:04:10 zakim, end meeting 14:04:10 As of this point the attendees have been Jan, chiace, Jean, present, andy 14:04:12 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 14:04:13 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/23-global-inclusion-minutes.html Zakim 14:04:19 I am happy to have been of service, Jan; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 14:04:20 Zakim has left #global-inclusion 14:04:27 rrsagent, bye 14:04:27 I see no action items