13:56:03 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #act-r
13:56:07 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/04/17-act-r-irc
13:56:07 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:56:08 <Zakim> Meeting: ACT Rules Community Group Teleconference
13:56:16 <CarlosD> Agenda+ ACT standup
13:56:16 <CarlosD> Agenda+ "Zoomed text node is not clipped with CSS overflow" [59br37]: Failed Example 3, 4, 5 satisfy the SC https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/2306
13:56:16 <CarlosD> Agenda+ Expand the iframe focusable rule to include scrollable non-interactive element in an iframe https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/2320
13:56:18 <CarlosD> Agenda+ "Heading has non-empty accessible name" [ffd0e9]: Update from TF survey https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/2077
13:56:20 <CarlosD> Agenda+ New Manual Tests Rule Creation Group https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/1952
13:56:22 <CarlosD> Agenda+ Stateful Rules https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/1953
14:01:13 <CarlosD> present+
14:02:02 <sashanichols> sashanichols has joined #act-r
14:02:25 <todd> todd has joined #act-r
14:02:45 <Shunguo> Shunguo has joined #act-r
14:03:39 <Wilco> Wilco has joined #act-r
14:03:44 <Helen> Helen has joined #act-r
14:04:08 <Helen> present+
14:04:30 <sashanichols> present+
14:04:41 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #act-r
14:04:44 <todd> present+
14:05:03 <Wilco> present+
14:06:00 <CarlosD> scribe+ Kathy
14:06:03 <Kathy> present+
14:06:25 <CarlosD> present+ Sage
14:06:57 <Sage> Sage has joined #act-r
14:06:57 <Kathy> zakim, take up next
14:06:57 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- ACT standup -- taken up [from CarlosD]
14:07:33 <Kathy> carlosd: busy with other things
14:07:52 <Kathy> helen: attending meetings
14:08:28 <Kathy> sage: attending meetings, looking for what I can try to do
14:09:04 <Kathy> sasha: opened a PR for summary element position
14:09:42 <Kathy> shunguo: opened a PR for combo box aria requirement and asked for review
14:10:43 <Kathy> ... another added examples for PR 2318. other PR is 2322
14:11:27 <Kathy> todd: not able to contribute for a while but will in the future
14:11:49 <Kathy> vartika: not much
14:12:00 <Wilco> https://deploy-preview-330--wai-wcag-act-rules.netlify.app/standards-guidelines/act/rules/wcag/
14:12:32 <Kathy> wilco: overview page in progress, help kathy for rules, helping daniel for new implentation
14:13:34 <Kathy> kathy: submitted 2 PRs to AG for rules ready for their review and to be published
14:13:45 <Kathy> jeremy: not much
14:13:48 <Kathy> zakim, take up next
14:13:49 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- "Zoomed text node is not clipped with CSS overflow" [59br37]: Failed Example 3, 4, 5 satisfy the SC https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/2306 --
14:13:51 <Zakim> ... taken up [from CarlosD]
14:14:02 <Jeremy> Jeremy has joined #act-r
14:14:06 <Jeremy> present+
14:14:27 <Kathy> carlosd: started discussion in previous meeting
14:15:04 <Kathy> helen: understanding document has altered slightly. Trying to agree on impact
14:15:35 <Kathy> ... failed examples may be not applicable when it comes to zoom or resize
14:15:57 <Kathy> ... is it increase in text size or browser zoom?
14:16:47 <Kathy> ... trying to agree on updates needed
14:18:26 <Kathy> shunguo: two cases covered - for zoom, if text is clipped, it's always clipped. if text is not clipped, zoom is proportional
14:20:22 <Vartika> Vartika has joined #act-r
14:22:11 <Kathy> ... text size is more complicated. if code sets font size, browser cannot change font size
14:22:46 <Kathy> ... if no font size is set in code, the default is the browser's font size
14:23:20 <Kathy> carlosd: that fails the SC but not the rule
14:24:57 <Wilco> q+
14:25:26 <Kathy> ... the rule only considers zoom, not text resize. Can't be sure if user changes text size, clipping will happen
14:25:51 <Wilco> https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/act/rules/b4f0c3/
14:26:06 <Kathy> wilco: a third method - adjust window size
14:26:38 <Kathy> ... if a browser supports multiple ways, any of those solutions allow a pass
14:27:09 <Kathy> sage: are Windows settings for text size to consider?
14:27:46 <Kathy> shunguo: that would be end user settings so not considered
14:28:01 <Kathy> helen: the rule is about browser zoom
14:28:35 <Kathy> shunguo: WCAG includes zoom magnification
14:28:56 <Kathy> helen: some browsers allow zoom of text alone
14:29:20 <Kathy> wilco: pinch zoom works on pinch and browser zoom
14:30:03 <Kathy> s/pinch zoom//some browsers
14:30:55 <Kathy> carlosd: what does SC mean by text can be resized without AT
14:31:17 <Kathy> ... is it user agent dependent?
14:31:52 <Kathy> ... is zooming everything not resizing text?
14:32:26 <Kathy> shunguo: zooming is uniform because everything is proportional
14:33:52 <Kathy> ... what is upper limit of text only
14:35:48 <Kathy> carlosd: zoom being proportional is not simple. in rule examples, clipping starts because it's dependent on fixed height
14:36:21 <Kathy> ... initial zoom level is not clipped
14:36:36 <Kathy> wilco: clarify clipped means no option to scroll
14:37:07 <Kathy> ... firefox has an option to set minimum font size
14:37:43 <Kathy> ... if you set 32 pixels that's 200% of the default font size
14:38:36 <Kathy> carlosd: first assumption is no other mechanism for resizing text on page
14:39:35 <Kathy> wilco: AGWG approved meta viewport rule
14:39:56 <Kathy> ... approved failing anything that prohibits pinch to zoom
14:40:35 <Kathy> ... did not think of browser mechanisms
14:41:02 <Kathy> carlosd: can it be a secondary requirement?
14:42:08 <Kathy> wilco: allowing to fail or not is not what secondary requirements are for
14:42:39 <Kathy> ... this needs more work
14:43:11 <Kathy> carlosd: pinch to zoom would pass every page 1.4.4. Is this an SC to deprecate?
14:44:30 <Kathy> helen: not all sites allow pinch to zoom. some prevent it
14:45:19 <Kathy> wilco: don't think 1.4.4 is an automatic pass
14:45:36 <Kathy> ... any method is a pass
14:46:00 <Kathy> jeremy: written as an "or"
14:46:47 <Kathy> wilco: what is AT, what is a user agent feature. can browser zoom be AT
14:48:31 <Kathy> shunguo: a user's default large font settings may clip
14:49:18 <Kathy> sashanichols: did AG consider that when writing SC?
14:49:34 <Kathy> wilco: written in 2007 so no
14:49:51 <Kathy> ... understanding docs need clarification
14:50:46 <Kathy> ... is meta viewport rule still valid?
14:50:57 <Kathy> shunguo: yes, still valid
14:51:10 <Wilco> +1
14:51:14 <Kathy> helen: vote? +1 valide, -1 invalid
14:51:19 <todd> +1
14:51:23 <Kathy> +1
14:51:24 <Sage> +1
14:51:24 <sashanichols> +1
14:51:24 <Jeremy> +1
14:51:56 <CarlosD> +1
14:52:03 <Kathy> s/valide//valid
14:52:24 <Kathy> wilco: I will work on this
14:54:10 <Kathy> helen: valid rule but needs to be updated
14:54:54 <CarlosD> https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG22/Techniques/failures/F94
14:55:14 <Kathy> carlosd: F94 failure of 1.4.4 specifies methods to resize text in test procedure
14:55:45 <Kathy> ... browser zoom, browser text size, or page controls for text resize
14:56:12 <Kathy> ... but written almost 20 years ago
14:56:28 <Kathy> wilco: includes media queries which aren't that old
14:57:04 <Kathy> carlosd: updated date is 2024 so AG is aware of current zoom solutions
14:57:55 <Kathy> ... this technique says user agent and content
14:59:00 <Kathy> carlosd: final thoughts
14:59:06 <Kathy> wilco: good discussion
14:59:27 <Kathy> jeremy: interesting
14:59:56 <Kathy> sage: understood the good discussion
15:00:24 <Kathy> sashanichols: willing to help wilco
15:00:41 <Kathy> todd: glad to be back
15:01:21 <Kathy> helen: thanks to wilco for taking this on
15:01:34 <Kathy> vartika: insightful and valuable
15:02:37 <Kathy> chair: carlosd
15:03:13 <CarlosD> RRSAgent, draft minutes v1
15:03:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/17-act-r-minutes.html CarlosD
15:03:50 <CarlosD> present+ Shunguo
15:04:02 <CarlosD> present+ Vartika
15:04:06 <CarlosD> RRSAgent, draft minutes v1
15:04:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/17-act-r-minutes.html CarlosD
15:04:46 <CarlosD> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:04:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/17-act-r-minutes.html CarlosD
15:06:07 <CarlosD> Zakim, end meeting
15:06:07 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been CarlosD, Helen, sashanichols, todd, Wilco, Kathy, Sage, Jeremy, Shunguo, Vartika
15:06:11 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v1
15:06:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/17-act-r-minutes.html Zakim
15:06:18 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, CarlosD; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:06:18 <Zakim> Zakim has left #act-r
15:07:08 <CarlosD> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:07:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/17-act-r-minutes.html CarlosD
15:07:24 <CarlosD> RRSAgent, bye
15:07:24 <RRSAgent> I see no action items