14:03:38 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-ngsi-ld
14:03:42 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/04/14-wot-ngsi-ld-irc
14:03:53 <kaz> meeting: WoT and NGSI-LD
14:03:54 <jhierro1> jhierro1 has joined #wot-ngsi-ld
14:04:01 <fred> fred has joined #wot-ngsi-ld
14:04:12 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Frederic_LE, Juanjo_Hierro, Dave_Raggett
14:04:44 <draggett> scribenick: draggett
14:04:51 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WoT-NGSI-LD#April_14,_2025
14:05:11 <draggett> The next meeting will be April 28
14:05:22 <kaz> i|The next|topic: Logistics
14:05:28 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:05:33 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:05:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/14-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz
14:05:54 <kaz> chair: McCool
14:05:58 <draggett> McCool: I won't be as engaged with WoT as my role at Intel is changing.
14:06:23 <draggett> I can probably make the call twice a month
14:06:38 <kaz> q+
14:06:50 <kaz> q-
14:06:52 <draggett> We may be able to interest people in the Smart City group, Kaz can ask...
14:07:09 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:07:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/14-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz
14:07:27 <draggett> Sebastian should be able to help out
14:07:45 <kaz> topic: Minutes
14:07:51 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2025/03/10-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html Mar-10
14:08:08 <draggett> McCooll refers to his use case
14:08:44 <draggett> Some discussion on north bound APIs in relation to TDs
14:09:07 <draggett> We approve the minutes.
14:09:24 <kaz> topic: Activities
14:09:25 <draggett> (for 14 April 2025)
14:09:30 <kaz> s/topic: Activities//
14:09:31 <kaz> topic: Activities
14:09:32 <jhierro1> Also Martin prepared a use case in form of PR.  He will join later today
14:09:45 <kaz> s/topic: Activities//
14:09:56 <kaz> i/for 14/topic: Activities/
14:09:58 <kaz> topic: Activities
14:10:06 <kaz> s/topic: Activities//
14:10:08 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:10:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/14-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz
14:10:15 <draggett> An outstanding question is how to map actions
14:10:48 <draggett> McCool: I'd like to walk us through what we mean by actions
14:11:17 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-ngsi-ld/issues/18 Issue 18 - Discuss Action Semantics
14:11:30 <draggett> We have an opportunity to align on what we mean by actions
14:11:43 <kaz> i|An outstanding|subtopic: Issue 18|
14:11:46 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:11:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/14-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz
14:12:30 <draggett> jhierro1: actions are not currently supported in NGSI-LD, but they are on the roadmap
14:13:48 <draggett> McCool: let's look at the current TD spec. This describes how to invoke a function, which may or may not change the state
14:13:53 <jhierro1> but this is not a problem but an opportunity because actions then can be defined in NGSI-LD in a way keeping an eye how things can work together with WoT.
14:14:08 <kaz> i|let's|-> https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-thing-description11/#actionaffordance WoT Thing Description 1.1 REC - 5.3.1.4 ActionAffordance|
14:14:09 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:14:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/14-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz
14:14:40 <Franck> Franck has joined #wot-ngsi-ld
14:15:15 <draggett> A non-state changing function might for example change the units of measure
14:16:13 <kaz> present+ Franck_LE_GALL
14:16:16 <draggett> The vocab term "safe" refers to whether an action leaves the state unchanged
14:16:16 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:16:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/14-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz
14:17:06 <draggett> idempotent actions are guaranteed to have the same effect
14:17:23 <draggett> ... each time they are invoked
14:18:26 <draggett> Synchronous actions signify that any state change is complete by the time the action's response is generated
14:18:42 <kaz> q+
14:18:50 <draggett> That isn't the case for async actions
14:20:08 <draggett> Actions further define the data schema for their input and output
14:20:38 <kaz> present+ Martin_Bauer
14:21:17 <draggett> [Martin joins, and Michael summaries the discussion so far]
14:22:05 <draggett> Actions can be invoke functions or they can initiate processes
14:23:23 <draggett> jhierro1: the way to invoke an action should be the same for all actions whether or not they change the state etc., right?
14:23:55 <draggett> McCool: yes indeed
14:24:18 <kaz> q?
14:24:24 <draggett> The affordance in the TD tells you how to invoke the action
14:26:45 <draggett> McCool: synchronous actions make take appreciable time just so long as the state is stable when the response is sent
14:27:07 <draggett> s/make/may/
14:27:43 <kaz> q?
14:27:45 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-ngsi-ld/issues/18
14:29:00 <draggett> kaz: who is durkinza? Please type your name into IRC, thanks
14:29:10 <kaz> present+ Zane_Durkin
14:29:23 <draggett> durkinza: I am the Web of Things activity
14:29:38 <durkinza> durkinza has joined #wot-ngsi-ld
14:29:42 <draggett> s/am/am in/
14:29:46 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:29:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/14-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz
14:30:44 <draggett> McCool: my use case was about onboarding
14:31:32 <draggett> Martin's use case is how to describe an NGSI-LD entity as a thing
14:32:21 <kaz> i|McCool: my use|subtopic: PR 17|
14:32:27 <draggett> He can use NGSI-LD to model digital twins
14:32:55 <kaz> i|He can|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-ngsi-ld/pull/17 PR 17 - Bauer Thing Description for NGSI-LD Entity as Thing Use Case|
14:33:04 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:33:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/14-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz
14:33:22 <draggett> McCool: WoT TD's can't describe all possible ways to use HTTP
14:33:41 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster
14:33:45 <draggett> We can use feature requests to discuss any specific examples
14:33:59 <McCool> q?
14:33:59 <kaz> q?
14:34:00 <kaz> q-
14:34:38 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-ngsi-ld/blob/4d3fc1864e425a21c892d9306bf4aea423f4b12b/examples/EntityAsThing.md rendered MD
14:34:43 <durkinza> durkinza has joined #wot-ngsi-ld
14:35:25 <draggett> Martin_Bauer: events should be easier for us to map
14:35:52 <kaz> q+
14:36:18 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot-ngsi-ld
14:36:41 <draggett> Another example is where you have commanded a robot arm to move, and want to track its process
14:36:47 <draggett> s/process/progress/
14:37:57 <draggett> Martin_Bauer:  we need to look at some specific examples to see what problems arise
14:38:51 <kaz> q?
14:39:01 <draggett> At ETSI, we are still considering the use cases ...
14:39:47 <kaz> q-
14:40:00 <draggett> kaz: we can look at some concrete examples to elucidate the requirements
14:41:04 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:41:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/14-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz
14:41:12 <draggett> McCool: we need to talk about stakeholders at some point
14:41:34 <draggett> I want to merge the outstanding PRs, any objections [no]
14:41:38 <kaz> i|we need to|subtopic: PR 14|
14:41:58 <kaz> i|we need to|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-ngsi-ld/pull/14 PR 14 - Define Onboarding Use Case example|
14:42:00 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:42:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/14-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz
14:43:56 <draggett> McCool: The WoT threat model categorises stakeholders
14:44:18 <draggett> ... but not Digital Twin modellers
14:44:43 <draggett> Martin_Bauer: We don't yet do that in our work
14:45:41 <draggett> McCool: whilst we hav a list of stakeholders in the WoT use cases, we don't yet provide definitions of what the terms signify
14:46:40 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-ngsi-ld/issues/19
14:47:08 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:47:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/14-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz
14:47:31 <draggett> McCool: we can try to write a TD for a given NGSI-LD entity, I will create an issue to track that
14:47:52 <kaz> i|The WoT threat model|subtopic: Stakeholders|
14:47:55 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:47:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/14-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz
14:49:32 <draggett> McCool asks for some candidate NGSI-LD entities for this exercise
14:50:04 <draggett> Martin_Bauer: 2 or 3 examples, e.g. a concrete device and something more abstract
14:50:25 <kaz> i|we can try to|subtopic: Examples of mapping between NGSI-LD Entity and WoT Thing|
14:50:26 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:50:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/14-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz
14:51:59 <draggett> McCool: we would then identify the gaps, i.e. things that can't be modelled in TDs
14:52:37 <draggett> ... and capture feature requests for NGSI-LD as issues
14:53:28 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:53:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/14-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz
14:53:59 <draggett> Our next call is in 2 weeks from now, and it would be good to have some examples in progress
14:54:37 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-ngsi-ld/issues/20 Issue 20 - Implement Test Case for "Entity as TD" Use case
14:54:42 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:54:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/14-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz
14:57:32 <draggett> Some discussion on the existing use cases ...
14:59:28 <draggett> jhierro1: we need a use case involving collections of things
15:00:05 <draggett> Next meeting in 2 weeks
15:00:12 <kaz> [adjourned]
15:00:13 <draggett> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:00:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/14-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html draggett
15:00:21 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:00:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/14-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz