12:52:26 RRSAgent has joined #rqtf 12:52:30 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/04/09-rqtf-irc 12:52:30 RRSAgent, make logs Public 12:52:31 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jasonjgw 12:52:31 present+ 12:52:35 chair: jasonjgw 12:52:38 scribe+ 12:52:54 agenda+ Accessibility of Machine Learning and Generative AI. 12:53:00 agenda+ Miscellaneous topics. 12:53:53 meeting: RQTF meeting 12:57:49 JPaton has joined #rqtf 13:02:16 janina has joined #rqtf 13:03:10 present+ 13:03:12 scribe+ 13:03:21 zakim, next item 13:03:21 agendum 1 -- Accessibility of Machine Learning and Generative AI. -- taken up [from jasonjgw] 13:03:21 present+ 13:03:40 stacey has joined #rqtf 13:03:43 present+ 13:05:41 present+ Joshue 13:05:48 present+ Scott 13:05:54 present+ Raja 13:07:03 jasonjgw: Merged Josh's changes into main 13:07:45 jasonjgw: Included resolving merge conflicts 13:08:00 jasonjgw: Believe we're now at deciding next round 13:09:08 jasonjgw: Also question of citation support 13:09:49 q? 13:10:55 Josh: Made a few minor edits following jason's merge, will push as soon as I can login 13:11:36 topic: Bibliographic Citations 13:12:15 jasonjgw: Citation Style Language is a useful XML format supporting many other formats 13:12:47 jasonjgw: Also bibtext 13:13:07 jasonjgw: Suggest this may be easiest 13:13:46 scott: asks about exporting 13:14:49 scott: Asking about export from Endnotes -- the db application for bibliographic references 13:15:57 jasonjgw: I don't have Endnotes, but please check what formats it exports 13:16:01 scott: Can do 13:17:06 scribe+ 13:18:05 jason: i think we have a clear idea what to do, need to determine best tools, and then integrate into document production 13:19:23 scott: endnote - all the good options available 13:19:56 jasonjgw: bibtec and IRS are best options, I think 13:21:44 jasonjgw: scope section, josh's outline that needs to be filled in with content. Anyone interested in looking at any of that? 13:22:14 josh: we'll collaborate on that. placeholder and asking a question in there. But we'll collaborate on that. 13:22:51 jasonjgw: drafted based on discussions in meetings, can go back and draft with v2 with what i think we agreed upon or circling around in discussions 13:24:39 jasonjgw: BibTeX most widely supported 13:26:04 jasonjgw: need something like citation style language of what generated bibliography should look like. Generate the citations and references, done with a tool written for that purpose. Integrate integration of that tool into the document build process. XML citation style that defines what output looks like. 13:27:24 janina: lets worry about what it looks like as it happens. Scan through databases, if working with endnotes...what you give the w3c process is a text file that has records in the bibtex format. 13:27:47 jasonjgw: in document will be labels where citations are that correspond to the names of the records 13:28:28 janina: presuming kevin will find that on their own? something needs to describe thw ASCII text file, can't be so proprietary... 13:29:15 janina: "we prefer that you support bibtex, fallback is RIS, bibtex writes in ascii text file, described here, suggest CSL to transform the data into formats usable in w3c HTML publications... 13:30:17 janina: need a start of authority to tell them how to use them and what's included in the ascii file. 13:30:47 jasonjgw: need to choose a tool that already does this and integrate it. 13:31:28 janina: Raja is on board with all of this? Want to check. 13:32:32 Scott: this all works for me. pandoc would be good too 13:32:48 jasonjgw: i expect to be woprking on purpose and scope doc with Josh and others 13:33:31 janina: fall back name - RIS? Need to have the same logic path, point fallback if Bibtex is problematic to work with, need fallback with the logic path. CSL still relevant at that point. 13:34:08 janina: propose to write the email together in the next couple of days 13:34:57 scott: happy to help with the mail too 13:35:25 topic: document revisions 13:36:08 jasonjgw: taken action to look at purpose and scope. Josh has changes coming shortly editorial in nature. I'll help merge those in. Anyone who wants to take up any aspects in augmented doc that includes outline? 13:38:01 jasonjgw: anything else need to take care of inthe next week? 13:38:18 janina: go thru github issues and take notes in new structure and link actions 13:38:42 janina: that will tell us if we do or don't have appropriate doc structure. Should be an early task 13:38:48 scott: working session on next week's call? 13:38:53 josh: sounds good 13:39:04 jasonjgw: sounds good 13:39:48 janina: someone in the doc making notes on the fly? use the IRC channel...review issues one at a time, drop web pointer in IRC, copy and edit in document (in template)...do it that way? 13:40:25 janina: add notes and commit, need someone to track, if someone can monitor the issues and make sure the link gets into IRC. different process suggestions? 13:41:01 josh: I'll tag team on this 13:42:20 jasonjgw: broader ethics might need to find a place inthe intro with reference to sources. Known issues... 13:42:28 janina: i think sustainability should be in there too 13:42:51 scott: lots of interest as I've been informed. even if there's a line about "not in scope" is strongly recommended 13:43:30 janina: what have we wrought with this web, a lot of people want to know about sustainability. electrical generating capacity to AI farms that need to be built 13:44:48 jasonjgw: sustainability is complicated. Not sure how much addressed in this document? Who's best at making decisions on renewable sources? 13:45:15 scott: not knowing may be the answer at this time. Something to factor in future developments. 13:46:19 jasonjgw: run locally or on a data center, and who's data center? 13:46:51 janina: don't forget accessibility just because trying to be energy efficient. IF build good accessibility, content will be more efficient and effective? 13:47:38 scott: live captioning on local removes latency and presumes to be more efficient? food for thought. might be more there...a few possibilities as we talk this through 13:47:57 janina: maybe it is a section somewhere and not intro? 13:48:46 jasonjgw: it depends on how much to say. Maybe separate subsection in intro? other broad ethical considerations useful as well. ethics of webmachine learning might be useful and main text on a11y considerations. Broader issues in there? 13:49:52 topic: misc 13:49:53 zakim, next item 13:49:53 agendum 2 -- Miscellaneous topics. -- taken up [from jasonjgw] 13:51:28 janina: interest in discussion among management, asking to resume work on something we started a few years ago - AUR for web authentication. Less to say more about this now than then? There is a wiki page where we started gathering thoughts. Related to CAPTCHA. 13:52:05 janina: larger task of killing off CAPTCHA. Need to be done with this version of CAPTCHA 13:52:55 jasonjgw: prove humanity without revealing identity. use pass keys and FIDO 2 to avoid other mechanisms 13:53:28 janina: need to say a bit more than that. But a lot has been solved from what we would have said 3-4 years ago. point to that and where we are today 13:54:18 jasonjgw: strong motivation to deprecate passwords and move to passkey authentication. all major tech corps behind this. Anything we say to hasten this? Already moving fast. 13:54:57 jasonjgw: maybe treat CAPTCHA and authentication in same doc? 13:55:14 janina: it's on me. want to hear their concerns on why take it up. 13:56:43 zakim, end meeting 13:56:43 As of this point the attendees have been jasonjgw, janina, JPaton, stacey, Joshue, Scott, Raja 13:56:45 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 13:56:47 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/09-rqtf-minutes.html Zakim 13:56:54 I am happy to have been of service, jasonjgw; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 13:56:54 Zakim has left #rqtf 13:58:22 janina has left #rqtf 14:33:18 kirkwood has joined #rqtf 14:46:53 kirkwood has joined #rqtf 14:50:24 kirkwood has joined #rqtf 15:13:04 kirkwood has joined #rqtf