13:59:07 RRSAgent has joined #lws 13:59:11 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/04/07-lws-irc 13:59:23 eBremer has joined #lws 14:00:12 zakim, start meeting 14:00:12 RRSAgent, make logs Public 14:00:14 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), acoburn 14:00:22 meeting: Linked Web Storage 14:00:45 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20250407T100000/#agenda 14:00:46 clear agenda 14:00:46 agenda+ Introductions & announcements 14:00:46 agenda+ Portability: data identifiers & locators 14:00:46 agenda+ Use cases updates 14:01:00 present+ 14:01:00 RRSAgent, make minutes 14:01:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/07-lws-minutes.html acoburn 14:01:25 hadrian has joined #lws 14:01:39 present+ 14:01:43 present+ 14:02:37 gibsonf1 has joined #lws 14:02:46 Here, thanks 14:02:48 present+ 14:02:54 present+ 14:03:52 ericP has joined #lws 14:04:01 present+ 14:04:07 chair: ericP 14:04:07 bendm has joined #lws 14:04:11 present+ 14:05:10 Zakim, take up next agendum 14:05:10 agendum 1 -- Introductions & announcements -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:05:22 sounds good 14:06:01 scribe+ 14:06:21 scribe- 14:06:25 scribe: hadrian 14:07:13 RRSAgent, make minutes 14:07:14 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/07-lws-minutes.html acoburn 14:07:38 AZ has joined #lws 14:07:42 present+ 14:08:02 gibsonf1: working with solid since 2019, running graphmetrix. Coming from the construction industry, an architect 14:08:22 ... integration with Oracle. We are an integration platform, coming from the smart server side. 14:09:09 ... we are very interested because of the scale of our customers, it's a massive amount of data. We have to solve the problem on our side for millions of datapoints. We're very interested in the search side. 14:09:37 ... you have to have search for massive amounts of data. The backend is common lisp. 14:09:51 most of the code is built by me. 14:10:45 Linked Data Hypergraph 14:10:56 ... we also have a patent for linked data hypergraph 14:11:25 s/most of the code/... most of the code/ 14:11:39 its a patent pending actually for LDH, not a patent yet 14:11:40 Zakim, take up next agendum 14:11:40 agendum 2 -- Portability: data identifiers & locators -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:11:43 RRSAgent, make minutes 14:11:44 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/07-lws-minutes.html acoburn 14:12:51 -> https://hackmd.io/udygiH3STieqHniB38h1ig Slides 14:13:05 ericP: introducing a seminar on portability 14:13:08 ryey has joined #lws 14:13:13 present+ 14:13:45 ... slides available: https://hackmd.io/udygiH3STieqHniB38h1ig 14:14:03 https://hackmd.io/@ericP/SybL2qT6Jl#/ 14:14:54 ... sharing screen 14:17:25 ... clarifying the concepts and problem statement on screen: https://hackmd.io/@ericP/SybL2qT6Jl#/ 14:18:59 ... portability to a new provider should happen with acceptable one-time and run-time cost 14:19:55 ... overview of the DNS features that work and what makes them work 14:21:46 ... how do we handle dereferencing without introducing points of failure 14:24:07 TallTed has joined #lws 14:24:44 ... presenting DNS, distributed ledgers and federations or shared registries. 14:26:43 q+ 14:27:21 present+ 14:28:33 q+ scope / charter 14:28:46 ^ hah 14:29:23 q- scope / charter 14:29:24 scribe+ 14:29:25 q+ csarven 14:29:29 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/07-lws-minutes.html TallTed 14:29:35 jeswr has joined #lws 14:30:08 ericP: Can you copy/paste your slides or link to them (if it can be persistent or you want it to be) into a comment in the lws-ucs issue on Portability? 14:30:18 previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/03/31-lws-minutes.html 14:30:18 next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/04/14-lws-minutes.html 14:30:30 hadrian: the term "stable, cross-provider identifiers" captures much of what I was trying to capture with portability 14:30:41 s/ericP: Can/ericP -- Can/ 14:31:03 ... you mentioned keri and IANA for providers. IANA is more of a governance entity to correct problems 14:31:18 ... the ability to correct disputes is an important element 14:31:38 ... having a dispute resolution process without prescribing how might be something to consider 14:31:55 dispute resolution analog to IANA is very interesting 14:32:40 ... I stated that DNS doesn't "scale well". It scales *out* very well. Here, we are talking about scaling *up*. For example, a few zones with many, many records 14:32:47 +1 to DNS's ability to scale out vs scaling up 14:33:12 queue? 14:33:16 ack next 14:33:27 ack next 14:33:28 ... I don't think LWS should prescribe a particular solution; instead, it should prescribe what the criteria are for a solution 14:33:32 scribe= 14:33:35 scribe- 14:34:02 RRSAgent, make minutes 14:34:03 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/07-lws-minutes.html acoburn 14:34:49 q? 14:34:52 s/scribe=// 14:35:30 csarven: I want to be mindful of the charter and the scope 14:35:50 ... I don't want to boil the ocean, we need to work within the scope 14:36:04 ... what kind of products are we writing the requirements for? 14:36:44 q+ to note that we do not want to preclude possible solutions 14:37:19 ... we need to draw a line because at some point it goes outside the charter 14:38:12 ack next 14:38:14 acoburn, you wanted to note that we do not want to preclude possible solutions 14:38:45 acoburn: agree that we don't want to increase the scope. we don't want to solve the issue, we want to make sure that we don't preclude working solutions 14:38:51 s/for? /for? For example, applications and servers generally working or part of the Open Web Platform 14:39:18 queue+ 14:39:30 q+ 14:40:08 q? 14:40:10 both `q+` and `queue+` work ... as you can see from zakim's doubled ack 14:40:16 q+ to DNS scaling and current implementation use 14:40:35 ack next 14:40:36 gibsonf, you wanted to DNS scaling and current implementation use 14:41:17 gibsonf1: pretty cool irc automation, i'm impressed 14:42:00 ... people have many accounts in many places, DNS works well for organizations, maybe we should have a spec for users 14:42:21 ... DNS is very tried and true 14:42:41 s/want to boil/want us to boil 14:42:41 q+ 14:42:43 ... i'd be very nervous to introduce another mechanism 14:42:54 s/within the scope/within the scope of the charter 14:43:02 ericP has joined #lws 14:43:06 ack next 14:43:34 s/Here, thanks// 14:43:48 s/sounds good// 14:43:51 bendm: to be a bit pragmatic, is it possible the next step to be to continue with the webid and then provide some sort of extension? 14:44:00 s/it goes outside of the charter/if it goes outside the charter someone will raise a flag 14:44:38 acoburn: we don't yet have consensus on this issue, we are trying to figure out what the scope is and the intersection with our charter. 14:44:58 ... one option may be for us to specify what are the characteristics of an identifier 14:45:19 q+ to say that DIDs have provided a lot of the groundwork; i'm just trying to clarify what the underlying tech relies on 14:45:26 ... that would allow us to potentially use DIDs or other technologies, now and in the future. 14:45:37 ... this is not how we'll resolve the issue for all time 14:45:38 ack next 14:45:39 ericP, you wanted to say that DIDs have provided a lot of the groundwork; i'm just trying to clarify what the underlying tech relies on 14:45:57 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/07-lws-minutes.html TallTed 14:46:09 q+ to ask how to evaluate such a more high-level set of requirement 14:46:09 ericP: I wasn't promoting these technologies, just providing an overview. 14:46:36 ack next 14:46:37 bendm, you wanted to ask how to evaluate such a more high-level set of requirement 14:47:03 bendm: if we stay to general, how will this work for implementers? 14:47:30 +1 to thinking about interoperable test suite 14:47:45 acoburn: we need at least 2 implementations for every requirement. you don't need a solution for every permutation 14:47:47 q+ 14:48:06 ack next 14:48:08 scribe+ 14:48:13 clear, thanks! 14:49:00 hadrian: agree re interop issue 14:49:01 ... +1 to cost considerations 14:49:05 ... IMO, much of the costs should be hidden in the infrastrcutre 14:49:16 q+ complexity cost 14:49:17 scribe- 14:49:23 ack next 14:50:02 ... +1 to complexity cost consideration 14:50:19 scribe+ 14:50:23 csarven: talking about the cost, is not just about operations, but the cost of building the solutions. They must not be overly complex 14:50:31 scribe- 14:50:59 csarven: we should prefer simple solutions over complex ones 14:51:42 +1 to modeling identifiers being central to our tech 14:51:46 zakim, open agendum 3 14:51:46 agendum 3 -- Use cases updates -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:51:57 scribe+ 14:52:24 hadrian: Issue 140 touches on portability 14:52:52 ... miro board to model relationship between use cases and requirements 14:52:56 s/complex ones/complex ones ( https://www.w3.org/TR/design-principles/#simplicity ) 14:53:09 ... more issues have "needs discussion" label 14:53:27 ... by end of this month (April) all issues will be out of triage 14:53:42 scribe- 14:53:43 q+ 14:53:51 ack next 14:54:02 jeswr has joined #lws 14:54:07 ryey: is there anything expected from our side? 14:54:11 present+ 14:54:24 scribe+ 14:54:46 hadrian: just add comments to the issues. Trying to have async conversations because time is limited in this call 14:55:20 q+ 14:55:44 ack next 14:55:52 ack next 14:57:38 RRSAgent, make minutes 14:57:39 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/04/07-lws-minutes.html acoburn 14:58:35 hadrian has left #lws 15:04:24 acoburn has left #lws 20:02:02 TallTed has joined #lws 20:45:13 TallTed has joined #lws