14:07:50 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
14:07:54 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/03/31-coga-irc
14:07:54 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:07:55 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:08:31 <julierawe> chair: julierawe
14:08:49 <julierawe> date: 31 mar 2025
14:11:00 <julierawe> agenda+ Continue replacing the phrase "cognitive and learning disabilities" in Making Content Usable
14:11:21 <julierawe> agenda+ Review tasks for V2 of Making Content Usable
14:11:50 <julierawe> agenda+ Update on issue papers
14:11:59 <julierawe> agenda+ Requests from other orgs
14:30:29 <julierawe> present+
14:57:28 <tiffanyburtin> tiffanyburtin has joined #coga
14:58:27 <tiffanyburtin> Present+
15:00:47 <Jennie_Delisi> Jennie_Delisi has joined #coga
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15:02:19 <Jennie_Delisi> present+
15:02:38 <Eric_hind> Eric_hind has joined #coga
15:03:25 <JeanneEC> present+
15:05:21 <Eric_hind> present+
15:05:44 <julierawe> scribe+ eric-hind
15:05:52 <julierawe> scribe+ Eric_hind
15:06:15 <Jan> Jan has joined #coga
15:06:20 <julierawe> zakim, first agenda item
15:06:20 <Zakim> I don't understand 'first agenda item', julierawe
15:06:29 <julierawe> zakim, next item
15:06:29 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Continue replacing the phrase "cognitive and learning disabilities" in Making Content Usable -- taken up [from julierawe]
15:06:50 <julierawe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FkyRIP3CAuZ-JAazUOAUI64TYCrEfOkKSeBg94mMOkg/edit?resourcekey=0-HM4QyycKbkfCwWAXzIymrw&tab=t.0#heading=h.r0jc39bbtz1i
15:06:55 <Jan> present+
15:07:55 <Eric_hind> Look for 343 in the document
15:11:13 <Eric_hind> julierawe: Reviewing issue 343 around language for what we are now calling Cognitive and learning disabilities.
15:12:14 <Eric_hind> julierawe: There are legal considerations around switching out any words such as 'disabilities'.
15:14:27 <Eric_hind> Charli: "Cognitive Disabilities/Conditions" or neurodivergent disabilities can work in some jurisdictions but maybe some expanded text/references would be useful?
15:15:54 <Eric_hind> julierawe: Maybe the intro to next Making Content Usable could be the expanded list and then within the document, we reference the simplified phrasing.?
15:17:32 <Eric_hind> julierawe:  Maybe we can work with structure group to understand how often we might have to reference the simplified phrasing?
15:17:40 <tiffanyburtin> Cognitive Considerations?
15:18:31 <Eric_hind> julierawe: Important to have disability in the phrasing - again, legal considerations.
15:18:39 <Jan> I agree with John's comment that "differences" might be too broad and it's often negatively received by people who have disabilities.
15:19:10 <julierawe> Cognitive disabilities and neurodiversity?
15:19:38 <Eric_hind> Charlie: Imperative to use term 'disabilities'
15:19:55 <Jennie_Delisi> q+
15:21:35 <tiffanyburtin> q+
15:22:33 <Jan> +1 to Charli - disability is not a bad word
15:23:10 <Jennie_Delisi> q-
15:23:40 <Eric_hind> Jennie_Delisi: Cognitive disabilities and neurodiversity terminology is good - we should also check other locales to see if the meaning works for other locales.
15:25:21 <Jennie_Delisi> q+ re needing mental health explicitly listed
15:25:27 <Eric_hind> Charli: Cognitive includes mental health disabilities as far as what we can do to support.
15:26:14 <Charli> Charli has joined #coga
15:27:13 <Eric_hind> tiffanyburtin: Maybe we could use a simplified phrase if we have wider context explanation at the start of the doc (intro/abstract)
15:27:30 <tiffanyburtin> Very good summary Eric.
15:30:58 <julierawe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GwIadQU2rmDwqPDeYX6PF7UjnD4D47vqRjvPysXNe-A/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.8op9ructilp5
15:31:32 <Eric_hind> julierawe: Doc also has points around the use of "Cognitive Disabilities",  there are some collective memories around other higher level phrasing and then secondary explanations.
15:32:57 <Eric_hind> julierawe: Early note was "Cognitive Accessibility Guidance", then "Making Content usable for people with ... <list>", then in Intro section use the umbrella phrase that links to main explanation or pops up same list.
15:33:19 <Jan> Here's a short article with a link to a paper on "SayTheWord" that Charli mentioned earlier: https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2019/04/23/disability-is-not-a-dirty-word-handi-capable-should-be-retired/
15:34:23 <Jennie_Delisi> q-
15:34:42 <Jan> +1 to Jennie's comment that mental health be called out specifically
15:35:14 <Eric_hind> Jennie_Delisi: Moving to that style makes some sense, but including Mental Health can give content viewers more context of the list of inclusion for Making Content Usable.
15:36:51 <Eric_hind> Charli: Attention and attention regulation would help with how people reflect on their inclusion
15:38:24 <Eric_hind> Jennie_Delisi: Note that some terminology describing the same thing can vary quite a bit.
15:38:41 <tiffanyburtin> q-
15:39:13 <Eric_hind> julierawe: An appendix or bullet list later on to show culture/local differences would definitely help too.
15:40:33 <Eric_hind> Charli: question on intellectual disabilities and how we include them in making content usable.  We do have user stories that account from some perspectives
15:43:50 <Eric_hind> julierawe: Do we think that examples like processing  are good for the sample list (when expanded Cognitive and Neurodivergent disabilities) - along with learning, attention, memory or mental health?
15:45:20 <Eric_hind> Jennie_Delisi: Should we make our business requirements as our third (full) explainer?  To help us understand the audience and requirement for each?
15:47:40 <Jan> Jennie: Title's purpose is to communicate the purpose of the document. The length of the title supports what people will see when they do a search - we want it to express enough for way finding, but not too much. The same thing for the abstract - we want to limit it to some degree so that we can use it as needed when we have a limitation on
15:47:40 <Jan> characters. The third thing we need is a detailed list of cognitive disabilities. We need three things: Title, Abstract, Detailed List. We just need to keep the purpose of these three things in mind.
15:47:44 <Eric_hind> Julierawe: Title, abstract and links - we should get the audience and requirements for each level
15:48:30 <Jan> Jennie: The abstract is where SEO is pulled from - some people may need to have the word "autism" in the abstract if that is what they need to see themselves in the document. We just need to make a decision about how to manage the abstract.
15:48:49 <Eric_hind> Jennie_Delisi: W3C may or may not let us have bulleted lists in abstracts?
15:48:54 <Jan> Julie: The W3C may have some rules about what can go into an abstract - we might not be able to have a bulleted list.
15:49:50 <Eric_hind> Julierawe: Should we mention things like autism at a higher tier Description?
15:50:54 <Jan> Jennie: If the subtitle could be the plain language, inclusive piece.
15:51:31 <Jan> Julie: We need a phrase in a subtitle that gives some key terms and then link to more detail in a bulleted list.
15:52:57 <Eric_hind> Julierawe: Adding some examples in the abstract-level paragraph would potentially be useful?
15:54:29 <Eric_hind> tiffanyburtin: Adding phrasing like comorbidities might expand the scope of the abstract?
15:55:27 <Eric_hind> julierawe: A short list would give a sense of the range - with links to deeper explanation?
15:57:03 <Eric_hind> Charli: "One or more" or some variant might be helpful too.
15:58:56 <Jennie_Delisi> Document needs: key words (to add into search engine optimization areas of the document), vocabulary to include in long definition areas
15:59:13 <Eric_hind> julierawe: If we show our umbrella term and then a such-as list would that help?
16:00:20 <Eric_hind> julierawe: Propose showing the group our main discussed table cell (Title: Cognitive accessibility guidance")
16:00:37 <Jennie_Delisi> Great job leading today julierawe!
16:00:50 <Jan> Thanks for leading today, Julie!
16:00:59 <Eric_hind> Thank you Julie
16:01:11 <julierawe> rssagent, make minutes
16:01:30 <julierawe> rrsagent, make minutes
16:01:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/31-coga-minutes.html julierawe