18:02:28 RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg 18:02:32 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/03/25-aria-apg-irc 18:02:32 RRSAgent, make logs Public 18:02:33 Meeting: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force 18:02:33 present+ jugglinmike 18:02:43 present+ jugglinmike 18:02:45 scribe+ jugglinmike 18:02:47 howard-e has joined #aria-apg 18:02:51 present+ howard-e 18:03:40 Jem has joined #aria-apg 18:03:43 present+ Matt_King 18:03:50 present+ Jem 18:04:02 Topic: Setup and Review Agenda 18:04:02 present+ jemma 18:04:25 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/March-25%2C-2025-Agenda 18:05:00 CurtBellew has joined #aria-apg 18:05:31 present+ CurtBellew 18:06:07 Matt_King has joined #aria-apg 18:06:13 jongund has joined #aria-apg 18:06:30 present+ jongund 18:08:37 Matt_King: Any requests for change to agenda? 18:08:56 Hearing none, we'll stick with what we've planned 18:09:06 Matt_King: No meeting April 1 18:09:09 I will be out for April 8 too 18:09:12 Matt_King: Next meeting: April 8 18:09:19 Topic: Publication planning 18:09:35 Matt_King: We published last week, so I marked the milestone for March as "complete". It ended up having just two things in it. 18:09:56 Matt_King: Since it was published, has anyone verified the changes in the live site? 18:10:03 Jem: No, but I can do that this afternoon 18:10:09 Matt_King: Thank you! It should be pretty quick 18:10:33 Matt_King: I set up a milestone for April https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/milestone/38 18:11:16 Matt_King: We'll play the publication date by ear now that the W3C is more flexible. For the time being, I've set a tentative date for April 29 18:11:26 howard-e: No problem with that target on our end 18:11:56 Matt_King: Right now, this only has the "color settings" pull request. If possible, we'll add the "Expandable region" pull request that Adam is working on 18:12:10 Matt_King: I'll put that on the agenda for next week when Adam returns 18:12:53 howard-e: If we add a pattern which doesn't follow the expected structure (e.g. that it doesn't end in "-pattern"), then we need to modify a JSON file. 18:13:16 howard-e: It doesn't look like those conventions are properly documented, so I will look into documenting them 18:13:34 Matt_King: There's no reason not to follow those conventions, so we can conform to those 18:13:50 Matt_King: The conventions have been intuitively obvious to me, but you're right: they aren't properly documented, and they should be 18:14:00 howard-e: I created an issue to track that and assigned it to myself 18:14:03 Matt_King: Thank you! 18:14:27 Matt_King: I don't know if this "expandable region" thing should be a new pattern or not. We can discuss when Adam returns 18:14:46 Matt_King: There are also some other minor pull requests that could end up in the next publication 18:14:53 Matt_King: Any questions about the future publication? 18:14:57 Matt_King: Hearing none, we'll move on 18:15:03 Topic: PR 3252 - Editorial change on combobox 18:15:10 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/3252 18:15:15 Matt_King: This looks fairly simple 18:15:42 Matt_King: When I see this kind of pull request, I wonder if the problem exists elsewhere because we use similar phrasing in other places 18:16:05 Matt_King: I'd like reviewers to verify whether or not we have the same problem in other places 18:16:16 Siri has joined #aria-apg 18:16:23 Matt_King: This problem is related to the accessibility features and the amount of padding/border (the way we indicate selected items) 18:16:41 jongund: I think I worked on this combobox. I can take a look if you'd like 18:17:34 Matt_King: I know you have a big pull request in progress, but that would be great 18:18:04 present+ Siri 18:18:11 Siri: I can review it along with jongund 18:19:01 Topic: PR 2991 - Next steps on color settings practice 18:19:07 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2991 18:19:25 jongund: I made some updates based on the feedback in recent meeting minutes 18:19:39 jongund: It seems like Safari is the only browser that supports one requested feature 18:20:13 jongund: I'm concerned that including it may suggest to readers to force the default color theme 18:20:57 Matt_King: There's a media query for this, and it's only supported in WebKit 18:21:02 jongund: So what should an author do with it? 18:21:43 jongund: it looks like it inverts images on Macs 18:21:57 jongund: If this were supported on all browsers, what would you tell authors to do? 18:22:15 Matt_King: I can't recall the utility 18:22:29 jongund: I did update the table to say that there is a media query which is supported in some browsers 18:22:45 Matt_King: So someone can tell that this is going on, but should they do anything with that information? 18:23:07 Matt_King: Or, put differently: if someone is running with "invert colors" turned on, is there some benefit to the author knowing that? 18:23:26 jongund: There are already so many things that we're telling authors to do (or at least to consider) 18:23:54 Matt_King: We don't want to say that authors cannot detect this (as we previously stated) because that's incorrect. 18:24:01 Matt_King: We can say that we don't recommend doing anything in response to it 18:24:43 CurtBellew: I've never played with "invert colors". The thing with "high contrast" is that things will tend to disappear if you're not careful. I don't know if that's the same with "invert colors", but could that be what it's for...? 18:25:06 Matt_King: Theoretically, it's impossible for something to disappear because of invert colors because everything is inverted (there is no exception) 18:26:14 jongund: On the Mac, it's implemented globally on a low-level of the display, so there's little-to-no room for inconsistency. Even the DOM doesn't recognize the change--when the user inverts colors, the DOM still reports the color as authored 18:26:28 s/color as/colors as/ 18:26:43 Matt_King: It's very useful to tell authors NOT to do something, and it's often quite welcome... 18:27:11 Matt_King: What if we told authors (essentially) "don't use this media query; we don't see any benefit to it", would you be in support of that? 18:29:33 jongund: I think this is a non-issue. No one on this call has experience with it, and it's only supported on one browser 18:31:06 Matt_King: Because it's out there and because people are writing about it, I think taking a clear position is beneficial. 18:31:42 +1 18:31:44 jongund: I support the APG discouraging its use 18:32:24 Matt_King: Okay, so we're aligned on that 18:32:34 Matt_King: It looks like you've simplified the structure of the page, generally 18:32:39 Matt_King: Are you ready for additional review? 18:32:51 jongund: I'm still making changes in response to some of your feedback. I should finish that later today 18:33:24 jongund: I will let you know when it's ready for additional review 18:34:30 Matt_King: Thank you very much! 18:34:48 present+ 18:34:52 Topic: PR 3249 - Add HTML search to landmark practice 18:35:00 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/3249 18:35:09 Matt_King: jongund, I saw you pushed some additional commits 18:35:29 Matt_King: After we're done with the "color settings" patch, I think we should talk about what we need to do in the "landmark" section overall 18:35:53 Matt_King: That said, I think the direction #3216 is consistent with the way we've structured the rest of APG 18:36:13 Matt_King: Instead of pulling stuff from the examples into the "patterns" page, if there is additional information, it should go to the "practices" page 18:36:30 Matt_King: The "patterns" page was intentionally very simple and referred to the "practices" page 18:37:53 Matt_King: I'm thinking that we can keep #3216 "on hold" for now, and we can talk about it in a later meeting 18:38:12 Matt_King: In the mean time, I did want to land #3249 because it's a very simple change and it came from a first-time contributor 18:38:27 Matt_King: CurtBellew was going to add another simple commit to that to adjust the example page for the "search" landmark 18:38:56 Matt_King: I'm kind of wondering: if you already did some of the work that CurtBellew was going to do (I saw you push a commit that was similar)--did you make a change to the "search example" landmark page? 18:39:00 jongund: Yes 18:39:11 Matt_King: Okay, so CurtBellew, you might want to look at that commit 18:39:29 jongund: I added a demonstration of an "HTML way" to create a "search" landmark 18:40:09 CurtBellew: That sounds like exactly what I had done 18:40:24 Matt_King: I didn't see you push a commit to #3249, yet 18:40:39 CurtBellew: I've never pushed a commit to an existing pull request, so I had questions about how to do that 18:40:39 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/Submitting-Pull-Requests 18:42:43 Matt_King: [explains the process] 18:43:01 CurtBellew: That makes sense to me! 18:43:40 Matt_King: Great 18:44:01 Matt_King: Now, I pushed some more changes to this branch last Wednesday, and my changes still aren't showing up in the preview... 18:44:15 howard-e: It says it was last built on Wednesday 18:44:54 Matt_King: I have commit ed14fc6. That commit is not showing up in the preview 18:45:02 howard-e: I will check that out in the pull request 18:45:19 s/ed14/eb14/ 18:47:51 Matt_King: Ok, great 18:47:55 Matt_King: That's it for today. Thanks, everyone! 18:48:07 jongund has joined #aria-apg 18:49:21 Zakim, end the meeting 18:49:21 As of this point the attendees have been jugglinmike, howard-e, Matt_King, Jem, jemma, CurtBellew, jongund, Siri 18:49:24 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 18:49:25 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/25-aria-apg-minutes.html Zakim 18:49:32 I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 18:49:32 Zakim has left #aria-apg 18:49:39 RRSAgent, leave 18:49:39 I see no action items