16:00:15 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
16:00:19 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/03/20-rdf-star-irc
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16:00:32 <ktk> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/7dabb1f5-cadc-4c4f-ae57-fcc9e0c36705/20250320T120000/
16:00:32 <agendabot> clear agenda
16:00:32 <agendabot> agenda+ Approval of minutes from the last two meetings: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2025/03/06-rdf-star-minutes.html , -> 2 https://www.w3.org/2025/03/13-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:00:32 <agendabot> agenda+ Prioritization of next week's topics -> 3 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/6
16:00:33 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of open actions, available at -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3
16:00:34 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of pull requests, available at -> 5 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4
16:00:37 <agendabot> agenda+ Issue Triage, available at -> 6 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/5
16:00:40 <agendabot> agenda+ Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting
16:00:44 <james> present+
16:00:49 <gkellogg> present+
16:00:58 <ktk> present+
16:01:08 <doerthe> doerthe has joined #rdf-star
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16:01:18 <doerthe> present+
16:01:23 <niklasl> present+
16:01:28 <ora> present+
16:01:30 <ktk> Meeting:  RDF-star WG biweekly meeting
16:01:31 <ora> chair+
16:01:54 <gtw> present+
16:02:11 <doerthe> scribe+
16:02:14 <ktk> scribe: doerthe
16:02:26 <olaf> olaf has joined #rdf-star
16:02:27 <pchampin> present+
16:02:32 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:02:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/20-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
16:02:35 <olaf> present+
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16:02:37 <ktk> RRSAgent, make log public
16:02:42 <pfps> present+
16:02:46 <Tpt> present+
16:02:49 <tl> present+
16:02:51 <niklasl> present+
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16:03:02 <ktk> Zakim, open item 1
16:03:02 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Approval of minutes from the last two meetings: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2025/03/06-rdf-star-minutes.html , -> 2 https://www.w3.org/2025/03/13-rdf-star-minutes.html --
16:03:02 <Zakim> ... taken up [from agendabot]
16:03:04 <AndyS> present+
16:03:12 <pfps> Minutes look good.
16:03:21 <enrico> present+
16:03:54 <eBremer> eBremer has joined #rdf-star
16:03:57 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-star
16:04:00 <eBremer> present+
16:04:03 <Souri> present+
16:04:13 <ora> PROPOSAL: Approve last two meetings' minutes.
16:04:16 <ora> +1
16:04:18 <enrico> +1
16:04:19 <niklasl> +1
16:04:21 <ktk> +1
16:04:22 <Souri> +1
16:04:23 <AndyS> +1
16:04:24 <gkellogg> +1
16:04:27 <doerthe> +1
16:04:30 <Tpt> +1
16:04:32 <eBremer> +1
16:04:32 <olaf> +1
16:04:32 <TallTed> +1
16:04:37 <pfps> +1
16:04:37 <james> +1
16:04:40 <tl> +0.5 (wasn't there for all of them)
16:04:41 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-star
16:04:45 <pchampin> +1 (for the one I attended)
16:05:01 <ora> RESOLVED: Approve last two meetings' minutes.
16:05:11 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:05:11 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Prioritization of next week's topics -> 3 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/6 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:05:12 <TallTed> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/03/14-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:05:12 <TallTed> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/03/21-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:05:35 <AZ> present+
16:05:38 <pfps> q+
16:05:41 <doerthe> ora: any suggestions?
16:05:44 <ora> ack pfps
16:06:11 <AndyS> q+
16:06:17 <doerthe> pfps: there are things tagged as "needs discussion" but we already discussed them, could we please close?
16:06:39 <ora> ack AndyS
16:07:09 <doerthe> AndyS: A couple of weeks ago we discussed a possible RDF semantics review, I think we can now do that.
16:07:30 <doerthe> ora: should we all read the document and discuss next week?
16:07:46 <doerthe> AndyS: yes
16:07:59 <doerthe> ora: how much time do we need?
16:08:32 <doerthe> enrico: that highly depends on the discussion we have
16:08:36 <pfps> q+
16:08:52 <doerthe> ora: then let's decide on a "back-up" topic
16:08:58 <tl> q+
16:09:03 <ora> ack pfps
16:09:11 <gkellogg> q+
16:09:15 <ora> ack tl
16:09:34 <doerthe> pfps: we also need to discuss at some point SPARQL exists errata being out of scope or not
16:09:52 <gkellogg> q-
16:10:04 <pfps> q+
16:10:13 <doerthe> tl: we also had the issues we planned for last week but did not discuss as I was not present, maybe we should add some of these for next time
16:10:20 <ora> ack pfps
16:10:32 <AndyS> q+
16:10:37 <ora> ack AndyS
16:10:40 <doerthe> tl: propose issue HELP
16:10:58 <doerthe> pfps: I would like to have a concrete proposal there
16:11:16 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/131 -> Issue 131 Streamline Turtle-star syntactic sugar and future-proof it for graphs (by rat10) [needs discussion]
16:11:23 <pfps> s/HELP/Streamline Turtle-star syntactic sugar and future-proof it for graphs
16:11:23 <pfps> #131/
16:11:23 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/131 -> Issue 131 Streamline Turtle-star syntactic sugar and future-proof it for graphs (by rat10) [needs discussion]
16:11:46 <tl> q+
16:11:50 <ora> ack tl
16:11:52 <pfps> q_
16:11:55 <pfps> q-
16:11:58 <AndyS> e.g. https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/131#issuecomment-2430152565
16:12:06 <doerthe> ora: could we have a summary for the issue?
16:12:24 <doerthe> tl: I can prepare a summary till Monday
16:12:40 <doerthe> ora: what else?
16:12:43 <AndyS> q+
16:12:49 <ora> ack AndyS
16:12:50 <pfps> q+ sparql exists ERRATA?
16:12:58 <pfps> q+ to sparql exists ERRATA?
16:13:22 <niklasl> q+
16:13:25 <doerthe> AndyS: unstar? versioning? are there discussions we still need to have there?
16:13:31 <ora> ack pfps
16:13:31 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to sparql exists ERRATA?
16:13:56 <doerthe> pfps: I would like to have the sparql exists ERRATA decided
16:14:13 <doerthe> pfps: but that is a rather big issue
16:14:24 <TallTed> pure bikeshedding, but important -- "unstar" should not be a thing, since "star" has become "1.2"
16:14:26 <gkellogg_> gkellogg_ has joined #rdf-star
16:14:44 <doerthe> ora: I learned that there was a community group only for that. I am not sure what to do here.
16:15:09 <ora> ack niklasl
16:15:10 <doerthe> ktk: It makes sense to discuss whether or not we want to discuss this topic
16:16:10 <doerthe> niklasl: I would like to answer AndyS' question about open issues on unstar and so on. There is an issue I wanted to make on additinal predicates we might need.
16:16:42 <doerthe> ora: let's have the meta discussion about the SPARQL EXISTS next week then
16:17:05 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:17:05 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Review of open actions, available at -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:17:10 <doerthe> ora: then we have three issues for next week
16:17:46 <doerthe> ora: where are we with the actions?
16:19:13 <doerthe> pchampin: Unfortunately, I still did not get an answer for the issue that we are out of charter and can therefore not publish
16:19:35 <doerthe> pchampin: I try to address the issues again tomorrow
16:20:14 <doerthe> ora: what is the status on issue63
16:20:59 <doerthe> pchampin: I left it open to always check for all documents
16:21:18 <doerthe> ora: what about the deletion of the reification part
16:22:29 <niklasl> q+
16:22:30 <doerthe> enrico: it was not done because we needed to discuss whether or not we delete more of the appendix (I accidentally did that)
16:22:42 <doerthe> ora: do we need discussion there?
16:22:42 <ora> ack niklasl
16:23:55 <doerthe> niklasl: We had that discussion and I think I remember that we should not remove everything without discussion. Question is for example where lists go if we remove them from semantics.
16:24:08 <doerthe> ... I had some proposals for that
16:24:25 <doerthe> ora: to me it sounds like we should discuss that
16:24:48 <doerthe> ora: maybe next week since I do not expect that to be contraversal
16:25:17 <doerthe> ora: anything else from the action list?
16:25:23 <tl> s/contraversal/controversal
16:25:36 <doerthe> ora: what is the status for reference to completeness?
16:25:42 <pchampin> FTR, I have another pending action but I'd like to rediscus it tomorrow at the Semantics TF meeting
16:25:48 <doerthe> enrico: that is closed
16:27:17 <doerthe> pchampin: I also have one action I'd like to discuss tomorrow (issue 149)
16:27:31 <doerthe> enrico: we can discuss that tomorrow
16:27:36 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:27:36 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Review of pull requests, available at -> 5 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:29:06 <doerthe> ora: there was something on the semantics? was that merged?
16:29:22 <doerthe> enrico: waits for your approval
16:29:29 <doerthe> ora: I will
16:29:46 <doerthe> ... what about the others?
16:30:08 <doerthe> pfps: some of them are waiting for a PR in concepts
16:31:17 <pchampin> ktk: doerthe, TallTed asked for a clarification from you on w3c/rdf-semantics#110
16:31:17 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-semantics/pull/110 -> Pull Request 110 Update of GrdfD (by doerthe)
16:31:33 <pchampin> doerthe: yes, this should be easy, there is no disagreement
16:33:09 <doerthe> pfps: I suggest to close the  issue about literals
16:33:18 <Tpt> q+
16:33:30 <doerthe> pfps: what about the issues on dark mode?
16:33:30 <ktk> ack Tpt
16:33:30 <ora> ack Tpt
16:34:05 <doerthe> Tpt: they are blocked because of styling questions (code blocks)
16:34:38 <doerthe> pfps: please avoid introducing new problems by your fixes
16:35:22 <doerthe> pfps: is there an official W3C solution?
16:35:37 <doerthe> pchampin: I will check
16:35:41 <niklasl> q+
16:36:14 <niklasl> q-
16:36:42 <doerthe> ora: more issues we could get rid of today? there are at least 6 on css
16:36:59 <doerthe> ora: there are also some on tests, what about those?
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16:38:04 <doerthe> AndyS: some are syntax tests on which we need to decide
16:39:10 <doerthe> AndyS: the issue on using triple terms.Ruben did a conversion which still need to be checked
16:39:58 <doerthe> AndyS: isn't the update in concepts done (168)
16:40:29 <doerthe> niklasl: it is done but I wanted to wait for more feedback
16:40:56 <doerthe> niklasl: I plan to merge it in a few days
16:41:02 <niklasl> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/pull/168
16:41:03 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/pull/168 -> Pull Request 168 Update figure style of triple terms (by niklasl)
16:41:32 <doerthe> ora: any objections to that merge?
16:41:38 <tl> q+
16:42:26 <doerthe> TallTed: there is an issue here which is related to the EBNF in dark mode
16:42:26 <ora> ack tl
16:43:10 <doerthe> tl: I remember that the visualisation of concepts was more appealing than the primer
16:43:39 <Tpt> q+
16:43:58 <ora> ack Tpt
16:44:10 <doerthe> niklas: it is a respec issue, but it is complicated. I will add a cross reference to the issue
16:45:10 <doerthe> Tpt: the issues are related to come conflicts between the style sheets (respec sets a fixed css which conflicts to ours)
16:45:33 <Tpt> The ReSpec issue: https://github.com/speced/respec/issues/4871
16:45:34 <gb> https://github.com/speced/respec/issues/4871 -> Issue 4871 color contrast issues (by pkra) [bug]
16:45:40 <pchampin> q+
16:45:45 <ora> ack pchampin
16:46:44 <doerthe> pchampin: there are two issues in 168, only one is on the styling and I recommend to set this in a separate issue
16:47:13 <doerthe> ora: I think we should not have to deal with css etc. but on content
16:47:56 <doerthe> ora: propasal: we merge 168 and deal with the css issues later?
16:48:07 <tl> is there a link to a preview where the images are shown?
16:48:23 <doerthe> niklasl: maybe we could enforce light mode?
16:48:56 <doerthe> ... but of course that could conflict with peoples preferences
16:49:16 <tl> q+
16:49:44 <doerthe> pfps: maybe that depends on W3C and their preferences, not our opinion
16:50:18 <ora> ack tl
16:50:36 <doerthe> pchampin: of course W3C likes these things to be fixed, but I also agree that this is not our main goal
16:51:49 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:51:49 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Issue Triage, available at -> 6 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/5 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:52:28 <pfps> q+
16:52:40 <ora> ack pfps
16:52:58 <doerthe> pfps: There is the issue on N3, could we close that one?
16:53:53 <AndyS> q+
16:54:41 <pchampin> q+
16:54:43 <doerthe> pfps: I also wonder how we deal with external requests/issues in general. Who tracks them, who closes them?
16:55:08 <doerthe> ora: should we look at these in the chair meetings?
16:55:28 <doerthe> ktk: discuss how we handle them, or discuss them?
16:55:40 <AndyS> ack me
16:55:41 <doerthe> ora: I would quickly go through them
16:55:52 <pfps> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-turtle/issues/56 is from outside the group and has been hanging around since October
16:55:52 <ora> ack pchampin
16:55:52 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-turtle/issues/56 -> Issue 56 Reference Notation3 (by nichtich) [propose closing] [spec:editorial] [wr:open]
16:55:53 <doerthe> pfps: maybe we can create a new tag?
16:56:00 <pfps> s/October/April 2024/
16:56:21 <doerthe> pchampin: for the specific issue: I think we should close it
16:57:05 <doerthe> ... I think if we address that issue, it should not be in turtle
16:57:45 <tl> q+ to ask where we are w.r.t. current time limits, and what extensions are discussed? just a short overview if possible
16:57:46 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/150 -> Action 150 Create note on triple term owlification (on niklasl) due 2025-03-07
16:57:53 <doerthe> .. maybe we can add that to the discussion how triple terms relate to named grahs, then we can add a discussion on graph terms and triple terms
16:57:53 <ora> ack tl
16:57:53 <Zakim> tl, you wanted to ask where we are w.r.t. current time limits, and what extensions are discussed? just a short overview if possible
16:58:16 <doerthe> tl: how are we time wise? could we get some overview?
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16:59:01 <doerthe> ktk: we had the extension, and wait for a final decision. It was a two years extension
16:59:41 <AndyS> q+
16:59:52 <ora> ack AndyS
17:00:04 <doerthe> AndyS: We need to get all the tests done
17:00:21 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:00:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/20-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
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