11:51:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
11:51:51 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/03/20-coga-irc
11:51:51 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
11:51:52 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
11:52:02 <rashmi> agenda?
11:52:20 <rashmi> zakim, clear agenda
11:52:20 <Zakim> agenda cleared
11:53:28 <rashmi> agenda+ Draft Proposal 3 for Toning of content. [Link- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1K4tI9SV4lsDXzCdaEAXExeL3f061__Sy06lfGV9mLvY/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.21xt52prd86k]
11:53:55 <rashmi> agenda+ Draft Proposal 8.2 - Make it easy to go directly to the starting point of a multistep process based on old proposal 8.2 and
11:53:55 <rashmi> [Link- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xnoNFwfjJZbfadFiU-qOW49n4-gODbd_4ff5UDyYFTM/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.idcp8usoxm85]
11:56:01 <rashmi> agenda+  Draft proposal Personalization of Trigger Warnings and Triggering Content [Link- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Itskr4srybRQa7hyIqMRiOPyjFyKB9apHYWdvGRb6gE/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.ogv44rfz22qt]
11:59:00 <rashmi> present+
12:14:50 <Lisa> Lisa has joined #coga
12:15:21 <rashmi> Draft proposal Personalization of Trigger Warnings and Triggering Content [Link- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Itskr4srybRQa7hyIqMRiOPyjFyKB9apHYWdvGRb6gE/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.ogv44rfz22qt]
12:15:49 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #coga
12:45:14 <rashmi> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1S9K4i0CAiTHCWXD0_LnpS90E2l9VC_Xs18UmOXhGzaw/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.t3uqwwnk7ffi
12:46:22 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_f3cJ2Wvnv7Q56QDPvGUADE_JQ7HiyOYYREDiaQpPmM/edit?tab=t.hnip6jqr9d7x#heading=h.zgit72wgd3vm
13:00:38 <Lisa> anyone joining the github call?
13:05:31 <julierawe> julierawe has joined #coga
13:05:36 <julierawe> present+
13:27:16 <julierawe> julierawe has joined #coga
13:27:18 <julierawe> present+
13:39:12 <julierawe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B1vCqlU1IF5UmqxhJAy8Khdi-kRQNPalVX8f3lCMr7w/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.kxpt0yrvdco6
13:39:49 <LenB> LenB has joined #coga
13:39:55 <LenB> present+
14:49:10 <Jan> Jan has joined #coga
14:49:26 <Jan> zakim, start meeting
14:49:26 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:49:28 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:49:45 <Jan> chair: Jan_McSorley
14:50:04 <Jan> Meeting: COGA Internationalization Subgroup Teleconference
14:50:22 <Jan> date: 20 03 2025
14:50:43 <Jan> regrets: Frankie, maybe Tiffany
14:51:04 <Jan> zakim, clear agenda
14:51:05 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:52:45 <Jan> Agenda+ Review the structure feedback from the Internationalization Accessibility Community Group (global-inclusion): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TeGEsD1JVf7L9bFW3_e7YTnqtmUnpTldJhD6N16ElAU/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.p3pa6f9fr2s0
14:54:59 <Jan> Agenda+ Review Persona feedback from the Internationalization Community Group (Andy's feedback: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YL1eK0z5pQbUkmdvJWa0pTV4JhkkWZ4dqwT7yIh7CpY/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.iwv30wqbni6) - (Content Usable Personas - https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#persona)
14:58:20 <Lisa> Lisa has joined #coga
15:04:30 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1x0l8JpOxxbksibwfhvMdT11FHAT0SI3S1-_atnZi0RY/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.8op9ructilp5
15:04:39 <Jan> zakim, next item
15:04:39 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Review the structure feedback from the Internationalization Accessibility Community Group (global-inclusion):
15:04:41 <Zakim> ... https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TeGEsD1JVf7L9bFW3_e7YTnqtmUnpTldJhD6N16ElAU/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.p3pa6f9fr2s0 -- taken up [from Jan]
15:04:51 <kirkwood> present+
15:04:56 <Jan> present+
15:05:05 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/19uLKmVcxYiiyDhJnUDWzmXYbXTD88EZhHn8NAoKpekY/edit?tab=t.0
15:06:46 <Jan> Here's the spreadsheet Frankie set up for the Internationalization Community group to provide feedback on the new structure: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GJxeaZwpmbSXyfrUXvS0SmXcuykCcwy9pUgD0FvNos0/edit?usp=sharing
15:15:57 <Lisa> pattern drafts: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19uLKmVcxYiiyDhJnUDWzmXYbXTD88EZhHn8NAoKpekY/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.iooo9ws6eb0
15:27:03 <Jan> IRC Minutes from the last global-inclusion meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/03/12-global-inclusion-minutes.html
15:29:12 <Jan> zakim, next item
15:29:12 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Review Persona feedback from the Internationalization Community Group (Andy's feedback:
15:29:14 <Zakim> ... https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YL1eK0z5pQbUkmdvJWa0pTV4JhkkWZ4dqwT7yIh7CpY/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.iwv30wqbni6) - (Content Usable Personas -
15:29:14 <Zakim> ... https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#persona) -- taken up [from Jan]
15:32:05 <Jan> Jan has joined #coga
15:40:10 <Jan> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:40:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/20-coga-minutes.html Jan
15:40:34 <Jan> present+ Lisa
15:40:49 <Jan> zakim, end meeting
15:40:49 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been EA, lisa, JeanneEC, Becca_Monteleone, kirkwood, julierawe, 1, Eric_hind, Jennie_Delisi, Jan, tiffanyburtin, Frankie, Rain, LenB, Jennie,
15:40:52 <Zakim> ... thelounge, Jeanne, rashmi
15:40:52 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v1
15:40:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/20-coga-minutes.html Zakim
15:40:59 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Jan; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:40:59 <Zakim> Zakim has left #coga
15:41:21 <Jan> rrsagent, bye
15:41:21 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
16:34:38 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
16:34:38 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/03/20-coga-irc
16:34:40 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:34:42 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
16:34:49 <julierawe> chair: lisa
16:35:11 <julierawe> Meeting: Editing Content Usable using the V2 template
16:35:28 <julierawe> date: 20 mar 2025
16:35:47 <julierawe> present+ julie
16:35:51 <julierawe> present+ rain
16:35:54 <julierawe> present+ lisa
16:35:58 <julierawe> present+ frankie
16:36:03 <julierawe> present+ kirkwood
16:36:16 <julierawe> present+ rashmi
16:36:21 <julierawe> present+ eric
16:36:37 <julierawe> Agenda+ Summary sentence structure
16:36:52 <julierawe> zakim, next item
16:36:52 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Summary sentence structure -- taken up [from julierawe]
16:37:07 <julierawe> The group is discussing whether the summary should start with what to do and then describe the "why" or if the summary should start with the "why" so that the "how" details are more meaningful.
16:37:07 <julierawe> 12:18 <julierawe> Option A that starts with what to do: Use clear titles to help users understand the purpose and context of any web page they visit.
16:37:07 <julierawe> 12:19 <julierawe> Option B that starts with the why: Help users understand the purpose and context of the  page by using clear titles or other research-backed mechanisms.
16:37:07 <julierawe> 12:19 <julierawe> Rain: Users told us they want us to get the point. "Just tell me what to do."
16:37:09 <julierawe> 12:20 <julierawe> Rain suggested looking lower down in the drafts and then come back to discuss the high-level summaries/
16:37:09 <julierawe> 12:26 <kirkwood> This is great!
16:37:09 <julierawe> 12:27 <julierawe> The group looked at the pattern migration tracking spreadsheet
16:37:10 <julierawe> 12:27 <julierawe> Can someone please put the url for the spreadsheet in IRC?
16:37:10 <julierawe> 12:27 <julierawe> Rain recommended starting with the first two that are ready for editorial review.
16:37:10 <julierawe> 12:28 <julierawe> Lisa: We got stuck on the first sentence.
16:37:11 <julierawe> 12:28 <julierawe> Lisa: The consensus is going toward starting with what to do. Does anyone besides me disagree and think you should start with what you're trying to achieve?
16:37:11 <julierawe> 12:29 <julierawe> Rain: In addition to what the research showed us, another practical reason for starting with "what to do" is that a lot of these are different ways of trying to achieve the same thing. So we're trying to start with something that doesn't sound like we're repeating the first part in several summaries that are talking about
16:37:11 <julierawe> different ways of achieving that goal.
16:37:12 <julierawe> 12:30 <julierawe> Lisa Does everyone agree to start with what to do?
16:37:12 <julierawe> 12:30 <julierawe> +1
16:37:12 <julierawe> 12:31 <julierawe> kirkwood A key element is that the "what to do" sentence includes describing the problem as well. It's more than 'what to do.' It's the purpose and what to do in one sentence, which comes across very well.
16:37:15 <julierawe> 12:32 <julierawe> Lisa: The consensus is to start with what to do and then say why.
16:44:30 <julierawe> Frankie proposed using written comments/questions so we can work asynchronously for the next few weeks
16:48:41 <kirkwood> present+
16:49:21 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AFAtja2ngUcTzHKdXNvvzx_DILw5A6dhHho5Igb520k/edit?gid=0#gid=0
16:49:39 <Lisa> frankins spread sheet : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AFAtja2ngUcTzHKdXNvvzx_DILw5A6dhHho5Igb520k/edit?gid=0#gid=0
16:49:54 <Lisa> page pourpose: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1x0l8JpOxxbksibwfhvMdT11FHAT0SI3S1-_atnZi0RY/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.8op9ructilp5
16:50:22 <Lisa> overview document - not for wordsmithing (we think) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GwIadQU2rmDwqPDeYX6PF7UjnD4D47vqRjvPysXNe-A/edit?tab=t.0
16:50:52 <julierawe> Group realized we had been wordsmithing in the overview document and will now focus our wordsmithing efforts in the actual draft.
16:53:32 <julierawe> The group debated whether to keep "and context" in the summary sentence or to move it lower down where we can define what is meant by "context."
16:57:01 <julierawe> The group debated the expansion from "Use clear titles" in the overview doc to "Use clear titles, supportive design elements, and organizational cues"—will the latter two elements be clear to users?
16:57:21 <julierawe> Current summary sentence: "Use clear titles, supportive design elements, and organizational cues to help users understand the purpose and context of any web page they visit."
16:59:08 <julierawe> Lisa: A title is very precise in HTML. Sometimes there isn't a title tag available such as in "views" in apps.
16:59:58 <julierawe> Lisa: Sometimes there is no title tag so you have to mention "header" in addition to title.
17:05:24 <Lisa> original https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#make-the-purpose-of-your-page-clear-pattern
17:05:41 <Lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
17:05:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/20-coga-minutes.html Lisa
17:13:21 <julierawe> We can solve the problem by using singular "A clear title or heading" instead of "titles and headings," which may make people think they need to look at all of the headings on a page to understand its purpose.
17:14:05 <julierawe> julierawe I will add a detailed note in the google doc explaining why we are suggesting this alternate wording.
17:14:09 <julierawe> rrsagent, make minutes
17:14:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/20-coga-minutes.html julierawe
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