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14:54:13 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:54:14 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:54:14 <lisa> agenda?
14:54:20 <lisa> q?
14:55:46 <lisa> present+
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15:02:10 <Eric_hind> present+
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15:02:45 <Becca_Monteleone> present+
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15:03:03 <Jennie_Delisi> present+
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15:03:30 <tiffanyburtin> present+
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15:03:47 <thelounge> Present+
15:04:11 <lisa> scirbe+ Beca_Monteleonec
15:04:18 <EA> EA has joined #coga
15:04:20 <lisa> scirbe+ Beca_Monteleone
15:04:27 <EA> present+
15:04:31 <Becca_Monteleone> scribe+ Becca_Monteleone
15:04:39 <lisa> next item
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15:04:42 <julierawe> present+
15:05:43 <Becca_Monteleone> Structure call upcoming on Thursday to start moving things over - 12 EST 20 March
15:06:07 <Charli> ? Has a meeting request been sent out for the Thursday meeting?
15:06:13 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Be sure to check time with time change.
15:06:50 <Jeanne> Jeanne has joined #coga
15:07:00 <Jeanne> present+
15:07:13 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Please only attend Structure meeting if you are able to commit to helping update structure in the long-term (e.g. can attend multiple meetings)
15:07:37 <Rain> Rain has joined #coga
15:07:56 <Rain> present+
15:09:35 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: helping with structure would mean converting old version of Making Content Usable to new structure proposed by structure working group. First meeting scheduled so Rain and Frankie can attend - future meetings may happen at other times
15:09:56 <Rain> q+
15:09:57 <julierawe> q+
15:10:31 <Becca_Monteleone> Charli: would like to be involved with structure group
15:10:42 <lisa> ack next
15:12:14 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: work conflict from 24 March to 7 May and so will not be able to attend meetings during that time. Will be at 20 March meeting. Will share document with Frankie and others with as much info as possible
15:12:20 <Charli> q+
15:12:22 <Jeanne> q+
15:12:27 <lisa> ack next
15:13:21 <Becca_Monteleone> Julierawe: Asking purpose of these planned meetings
15:13:48 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Actual implementation of new structure - working meetings to rewrite Making Content Usable
15:14:31 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Need to have some people from the structure subgroup there so that there is not duplication of conversations
15:15:27 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Do not need to know HTML or github to contribute - starting in Google Docs
15:16:57 <tiffanyburtin> When would the meetings be again
15:17:48 <Becca_Monteleone> First call - 20 March, 12 ET
15:17:59 <Rain> q+ to say I can make only the first half of that
15:18:33 <tiffanyburtin> That is a great time for me. Will we receive calendar invites for this?
15:18:50 <lisa> If this is something you want to work on please fill out the attached table
15:18:50 <lisa>  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kmYqgr96oyAFICNUFq0QyClNVjPOF9ZiTBn3xdv6CkY/edit?usp=sharing
15:20:01 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Spreadsheet is asking for general availability starting next week (24 March)
15:20:35 <EA> In the UK the clocks go forward 1 hour at 1am on the last Sunday in March
15:20:44 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Will need to update the times for England/Europe due to time change
15:20:46 <lisa> ack next
15:22:14 <Becca_Monteleone> Charli: Reminder to be attentive to COGA members' pronouns
15:23:56 <lisa> ack next
15:24:22 <Becca_Monteleone> Jeanne: Want to be involved in structure meetings
15:24:44 <Becca_Monteleone> Jeanne: restructuring of Making Content Usable was presented at CSUN
15:24:53 <lisa> If this is something you want to work on please fill out the attached table
15:24:53 <lisa>  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kmYqgr96oyAFICNUFq0QyClNVjPOF9ZiTBn3xdv6CkY/edit?usp=sharing
15:25:06 <lisa> ack next
15:25:07 <Zakim> Rain, you wanted to say I can make only the first half of that
15:25:27 <lisa> ack next
15:25:56 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Internationalization meeting 20 March at 11 ET
15:26:11 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Github Editor's call meeting 20 March at 9 ET
15:26:53 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Github Editor's call agenda on finishing drafts of issue papers
15:27:10 <Becca_Monteleone> Becca_Monteleone: regrets for Editor's call this week
15:27:21 <lisa> ack next
15:27:28 <lisa> next item
15:31:08 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: community meeting notes feedback. From previous conversation, re: endless scroll. If making a new pattern, need more research on solutions
15:31:18 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: multimodal communication - need issue paper
15:32:36 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Gesture interactions (mobile) - community group states that sole reliance on gestures is problematic
15:33:30 <Rain> q+
15:33:40 <lisa> ack next
15:34:38 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: google recently did some research on this; we need to address this; not sure proposed solutions in the doc are sufficient
15:34:38 <Jennie_Delisi> q+
15:35:03 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: There are issues related to memory; building in affordances important.
15:35:30 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: 4.2.5 may address this if we have explicit examples including gestures
15:35:53 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: May need to call attention to this specifically because people use Making Content Usable as a checklist
15:36:17 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Is there enough research to do a second pattern?
15:36:25 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: Need to connect with Kiki to verify
15:36:46 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: We know it's an issue, we just need to make sure that we have the research to give appropriate next steps
15:37:06 <lisa> ack next
15:37:15 <Jennie_Delisi> 4 areas: know there is a gesture, get orientation/reminder, know how to turn it off, and
15:37:18 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: proposal - see if we can find the research/ask the community group for the research
15:37:40 <Jennie_Delisi> 4 - ensure we are not duplicating WCAG
15:37:40 <lisa> and allow it to be off
15:37:49 <lisa> (5)
15:38:52 <Becca_Monteleone> Jennie: WCAG 2.2 does address the ability to toggle off; new potential pattern should focus on the areas not addressed yet
15:39:10 <Rain> +1 to Jennie's point that some of this is already required in WCAG2
15:39:29 <Rain> q+
15:39:39 <lisa> ack next
15:40:26 <EA> +1 agree - hard to find settings are a problem
15:40:33 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: Additional pattern to potential consider - the burying of supports in accessibility settings; people with cognitive disabilities are less likely to navigate the accessibility settings/menus
15:40:47 <Rain> +1 to new research, maybe an issue paper
15:40:56 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Important and much broader implications than just this issue
15:41:27 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Adding to suggestions doc for Making Content Usable
15:41:53 <EA> Look at the Lounge settings cog icon and then there is a questions mark - which one will be helpful?
15:42:30 <Jennie_Delisi> Scribe+
15:42:34 <Jennie_Delisi> EA: looking at the settings for IRC
15:42:41 <Jennie_Delisi> ...There are settings and a questio nmark
15:42:52 <Jennie_Delisi> ...But it is not just the content of the settings and where you try to find them
15:43:06 <Becca_Monteleone> EA: As example, looking at settings for IRC has settings cog and question mark - not clear which one is going to help with accessibility settings.
15:43:06 <Jennie_Delisi> ...It can also be that the set of icons (like a cog) and help...can be confusing
15:43:15 <Jennie_Delisi> * Sorry Becca!
15:43:23 <Jennie_Delisi> * Thought it was EA scribing
15:43:31 <Becca_Monteleone> * thanks Jennie!
15:44:40 <Becca_Monteleone> Jennie_Delisi suggestions: 4 areas: know there is a gesture, get orientation/reminder, know how to turn it off, and ensure we are not duplicating WCAG
15:45:13 <lisa> Q?
15:46:28 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Next community group item - intentional friction; e.g. when two similar adjacent actions have drastically different outcomes
15:46:43 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: partially addressed by avoiding errors/making it easy to undo errors
15:47:10 <lisa> Q?
15:47:44 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Some of this issue addressed by patterns under Objective 4
15:49:09 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: propose to return to this item once the new structure for Making Content Usable has been completed and reviewed to see if it's been addressed adequately
15:49:41 <Becca_Monteleone> +1 to Lisa's suggestion
15:50:22 <EA> +1
15:50:24 <Rain> +1 to Lisa's suggestion, as well
15:50:26 <Becca_Monteleone> Tiffany: agrees
15:51:25 <lisa> no one object
15:51:25 <julierawe> q+
15:51:56 <Becca_Monteleone> julierawe: is that part of the objective we'll be re-working?
15:52:28 <lisa> ack next
15:52:35 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: no; there is a list of items to review after our current sprints
15:55:11 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: next item from community group is comparisons.
15:56:42 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: supported decision-making paper mentions comparisons; Making Content Usable does discuss comparisons but does not mention problems of deceptive patterns
15:58:06 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: propose 1) adding information to supporting decision making issue paper about deceptive patterns and 2) add deceptive patterns to where it is discussed in Making Content Usable; review both to ensure it's sufficient
15:58:38 <tiffanyburtin> Yes agree Lisa
15:58:45 <Rain> +1 agree
15:58:49 <Becca_Monteleone> +1 to reviewing both issue paper and Making Content Usable to include deceptive patterns re: comparisons
16:00:14 <lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
16:00:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/17-coga-minutes.html lisa
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