IRC log of global-inclusion on 2025-03-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:42:41 [RRSAgent]
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12:42:46 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/03/12-global-inclusion-irc
12:42:46 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:42:47 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Jan
12:42:51 [Jan]
chair: Jan_McSorley
12:43:24 [Jan]
meeting: Internationalization Accessibility Community Group: global-inclusion
12:43:48 [Jan]
date: 12 03 2025
12:44:00 [Jan]
zakim, clear agenda
12:44:00 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
12:44:10 [chiace]
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12:46:45 [Jan]
Agenda+ Discuss a communication pattern for the new structure of Making Content Usable and provide feedback: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GwIadQU2rmDwqPDeYX6PF7UjnD4D47vqRjvPysXNe-A/edit?usp=sharing
12:50:32 [Jan]
Agenda+ Revisit COGA Personas and discuss how to bring feedback to COGA: feedback from Andy. Discuss ideas for a new persona, as suggested by the i18n working group. They would like a persona of someone who is a non-native speaker with limited language skills: Andy's feedback:
12:50:32 [Jan]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YL1eK0z5pQbUkmdvJWa0pTV4JhkkWZ4dqwT7yIh7CpY/edit?usp=sharing;
12:51:01 [Jan]
Agenda+ Review Frankie's spreadsheet for providing feedback on the new structure: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GJxeaZwpmbSXyfrUXvS0SmXcuykCcwy9pUgD0FvNos0/edit?usp=sharing
13:00:41 [Jan]
present+
13:02:53 [JStro]
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13:02:54 [Philipp]
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13:02:58 [Philipp]
present +
13:03:03 [JStro]
present+
13:05:29 [chiace]
present+
13:05:36 [andy]
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13:05:42 [Frankie]
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13:05:47 [Frankie]
present+
13:05:51 [andy]
present +
13:06:42 [Jan]
zakim, next item
13:06:42 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Discuss a communication pattern for the new structure of Making Content Usable and provide feedback:
13:06:44 [Zakim]
... https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GwIadQU2rmDwqPDeYX6PF7UjnD4D47vqRjvPysXNe-A/edit?usp=sharing -- taken up [from Jan]
13:15:31 [Jan]
When discussing the pattern - we are seeing a preference for using the infinitive form (e.g. Do ____ to help users do ____). In the 1.1.1 example, the group prefers Option A.
13:15:35 [Jan]
+1
13:15:40 [Philipp]
*1
13:15:41 [andy]
+1
13:15:43 [Frankie]
+1
13:15:44 [JStro]
+1
13:15:46 [Philipp]
+1
13:15:47 [chiace]
+1
13:22:40 [Jan]
Andy: Don't ask for a legal name unless you absolutely have to.
13:23:54 [Jan]
Philipp: Don't enable dictators by putting "legal" because people can change what is "legal." Maybe put name on documented materials."
13:24:08 [Jan]
Frankie: We need to keep safety in mind.
13:25:31 [Jan]
Philipp: As Andy mentioned, only ask for preferred name unless it is actually necessary to ask for a legal name, but then don't use the word, "legal."
13:26:03 [Jan]
Chiara: Maybe use "given" name instead of "legal" name because this would be more safe.
13:26:16 [andy]
^ @Philipp: only ask for "legal name" if absolutely necessary
13:34:58 [Jan]
Philipp: We should recommend that instructions be provided, with examples. There are too many variables and difference across cultures. In Japan, Korea, and China, the "last" name is actually listed first, etc.
13:35:19 [Jan]
Andy: If I was a person who is new to speaking English, I might not understand "given" name.
13:35:27 [Jan]
Philipp: It
13:36:39 [Jan]
Philipp: It's not possible to nail this. If you have an indigenous name and an English name, it can create a lot of problems - Frankie noted that indigenous names often cannot be typed on a standard keyboard.
13:37:17 [Jan]
Philipp: avoid family name, given name if possible because they might be offensive. Avoid legal if possible, but just try to give some examples.
13:38:50 [Jan]
Andy: Let's do a list of in order from best to worst: (1) Free form - let them put in their preferred name (2) Legal name is absolutely necessary in whatever order they want - all one field (3) Legal forced into pattern of first/last. Also provide a field for preferred name so that you always refer to people by their preferred name.
13:39:17 [Jan]
Jean: Is there a reason to separate first and last?
13:39:37 [Jan]
Andy: Yes, because in health care, they have to tie everything to your government documents.
13:40:22 [Jan]
Philipp: As a reminder, try to never require middle names and if you have 3 names fields, if possible, only require one name for people who only have 1 name.
13:40:40 [Jan]
Frankie: Indigenous populations may only have one name.
13:41:07 [Jan]
Andy: In some cultures, people have 2 last names and then they have to choose.
13:41:24 [Jan]
Frankie: The fields need to support labels.
13:41:53 [Jan]
Andy: The field name needs to put Last Name(s) to support 2 names.
13:42:20 [Jan]
Andy: This might mess up databases in health care.
13:43:05 [Jan]
Andy: We cannot limit the characters and the length of the name fields. For example, some last names only have 2 letters, but some fields won't accept names that are that short.
13:43:45 [Jan]
Philipp: Here's an example of a 2-letter last name: Ng
13:44:56 [Jan]
Andy: Fields need to accommodate other characters besides letters - we need the name fields to support all characters.
13:45:20 [andy]
Andy: Name fields should not be limited to just letters, shoudl accept numbers Philipp: shoudl include UTF-8 input
13:45:21 [Jan]
Philipp: Accept UTF8 - character coding
13:46:15 [andy]
And name fields should not be limited to only English characters
13:46:39 [Jan]
Jean: I have seen on some forms the use of "chosen name" - would that be acceptable?
13:47:50 [Jan]
Andy: "Preferred" name can also have an issue. For some people they don't have an option. Maybe we should use a phrase like "What do you want to be called?"
13:49:45 [Jan]
zakim, take up item 3
13:49:45 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Review Frankie's spreadsheet for providing feedback on the new structure:
13:49:47 [Zakim]
... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GJxeaZwpmbSXyfrUXvS0SmXcuykCcwy9pUgD0FvNos0/edit?usp=sharing -- taken up [from Jan]
14:02:32 [Jan]
Homework: Think about Frankie's spreadsheet and specifically columns E, F, G. Is there a way to simplify this, while still ensuring that we can thoughtfully consider all of these needs?
14:02:39 [JStro]
Adding a note that "chosen name" was not recommended.
14:03:42 [JStro]
One thought I'd like to share before I forget is maybe the wording could state "considerations for speakers of other languages"
14:04:09 [Jan]
rrsagent, generate minutes
14:04:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/12-global-inclusion-minutes.html Jan
14:04:31 [Jan]
zakim, end meeting
14:04:32 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Jan, JStro, chiace, Frankie
14:04:32 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:04:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/12-global-inclusion-minutes.html Zakim
14:04:39 [Zakim]
I am happy to have been of service, Jan; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
14:04:48 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #global-inclusion
14:04:48 [Jan]
rrsagent, bye
14:04:48 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items