11:10:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
11:10:23 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/03/12-apa-irc
11:10:23 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
11:10:24 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
11:10:31 <janina> Meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference
11:10:37 <janina> Date: 12 Mar 2025
11:10:41 <janina> Chair: Janina
11:11:03 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
11:11:03 <janina> agenda+ [Spec review requests](https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues)
11:11:03 <janina> agenda+ [Comment review requests](https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review)
11:11:07 <janina> agenda+ [CSS Update (Paul)](https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues)
11:11:09 <janina> agenda+ Actions check-in
11:11:12 <janina> agenda+ Other business
11:11:14 <janina> agenda+ Be done
12:59:01 <janina>  /me https://rednote.net/scuba250306.mov
13:27:33 <matatk> matatk has joined #apa
13:27:40 <matatk> agenda?
13:27:49 <matatk> zakim, clear the agenda
13:27:49 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:27:52 <matatk> zakim, start meeting
13:27:52 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:27:54 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), matatk
13:28:02 <matatk> meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference
13:28:13 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
13:28:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/12-apa-minutes.html matatk
13:28:40 <matatk> regrets+ Fredrik Demelza
13:28:41 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
13:28:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/12-apa-minutes.html matatk
13:30:06 <matatk> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
13:30:06 <matatk> agenda+ CSS inert review - please check out and review the details emailed to the list so we can ascertain what questions APA should be asking whilst we're on the call.
13:30:06 <matatk> agenda+ Spec review requests
13:30:06 <matatk> agenda+ Comment review requests
13:30:09 <matatk> agenda+ CSS Update (Paul)
13:30:09 <matatk> agenda+ Actions check-in
13:30:09 <matatk> agenda+ Other business
13:30:09 <matatk> agenda+ Be done
13:30:25 <matatk> zakim, clear the agenda
13:30:25 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:31:51 <matatk> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
13:31:51 <matatk> agenda+ APA re-chartering update
13:31:51 <matatk> agenda+ CSS inert review
13:31:51 <matatk> agenda+ Spec review requests
13:31:52 <matatk> agenda+ Comment review requests
13:31:52 <matatk> agenda+ CSS Update (Paul)
13:31:52 <matatk> agenda+ Actions check-in
13:31:53 <matatk> agenda+ Other business
13:31:53 <matatk> agenda+ Be done
13:31:58 <matatk> agenda?
13:32:23 <matatk> zakim, clear the agenda
13:32:23 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:32:24 <matatk> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
13:32:24 <matatk> agenda+ APA re-chartering
13:32:24 <matatk> agenda+ CSS inert review
13:32:24 <matatk> agenda+ Spec review requests
13:32:25 <matatk> agenda+ Comment review requests
13:32:25 <matatk> agenda+ CSS Update (Paul)
13:32:25 <matatk> agenda+ Actions check-in
13:32:26 <matatk> agenda+ Other business
13:32:26 <matatk> agenda+ Be done
13:32:31 <matatk> agenda?
13:32:39 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
13:32:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/12-apa-minutes.html matatk
13:46:43 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
13:46:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/12-apa-minutes.html matatk
13:46:51 <matatk> regrets Fredrik
13:46:55 <matatk> regrets+ Demelza
13:46:57 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
13:46:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/12-apa-minutes.html matatk
13:47:32 <matatk> regrets- Fredrik Demelza
13:47:33 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
13:47:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/12-apa-minutes.html matatk
13:47:51 <matatk> regrets+ Fredrik
13:47:52 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
13:47:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/12-apa-minutes.html matatk
13:50:46 <janina> agenda?
13:54:03 <janina> agenda?
14:01:12 <PaulG> PaulG has joined #apa
14:01:21 <PaulG> present+
14:02:02 <matatk> matatk has joined #apa
14:02:13 <matatk> present+
14:02:46 <Gottfried> Gottfried has joined #apa
14:04:27 <janina> present+
14:04:32 <Roy_Ruoxi> present+
14:04:38 <Gottfried> present+
14:05:05 <Gottfried> scribe: Gottfried
14:05:27 <Gottfried> scribe+
14:05:37 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:05:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/12-apa-minutes.html matatk
14:05:44 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
14:05:44 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from matatk]
14:05:59 <Gottfried> zakim, agenda?
14:05:59 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda:
14:06:00 <Zakim> 1. Agenda Review & Announcements [from matatk]
14:06:00 <Zakim> 2. APA re-chartering [from matatk]
14:06:00 <Zakim> 3. CSS inert review [from matatk]
14:06:00 <Zakim> 4. Spec review requests [from matatk]
14:06:01 <Zakim> 5. Comment review requests [from matatk]
14:06:01 <Zakim> 6. CSS Update (Paul) [from matatk]
14:06:01 <Zakim> 7. Actions check-in [from matatk]
14:06:01 <Zakim> 8. Other business [from matatk]
14:06:01 <Zakim> 9. Be done [from matatk]
14:06:15 <JonCohn> JonCohn has joined #apa
14:08:19 <Gottfried_> Gottfried_ has joined #apa
14:08:58 <Gottfried_> janina1: Community group on XR captioning working on a working draft
14:09:08 <janina> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2025Mar/0000.html
14:09:53 <Gottfried_> janina1: FPWD on accessibility in AI systems. First on content creation, but other topics will be added.
14:10:58 <Gottfried_> ... In the editor's draft, there is some more information on which topics may be added and requested for more information.
14:12:10 <Gottfried_> Chiara: Where can we contribute topics?
14:12:36 <janina> present+
14:12:50 <chiace7> chiace7 has joined #APA
14:13:02 <janina> present+
14:13:09 <chiace7> present+
14:13:45 <Gottfried_> janina1: In the doc, there are instructions on contributing either by GitHub or be email.
14:14:05 <Gottfried_> ... Your are also welcome to join the Research Questions Task Force.
14:14:53 <JonCohn> present+
14:15:08 <Gottfried_> chiace7: Have students working on master degree, may contribute to the topic.
14:15:33 <Gottfried_> janina1: We will have to add you by hand to the task force calendar and mailing list.
14:15:44 <Gottfried_> ... Everybody in AOA
14:16:10 <Gottfried_> ... in APA is welcome to contribute to all 6 task forces
14:16:27 <Gottfried_> ... explains status of FPWD
14:16:35 <matatk> s/AOA/APA/
14:16:36 <Gottfried_> zakim, next item
14:16:36 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- APA re-chartering -- taken up [from matatk]
14:17:11 <Gottfried_> janina1: We hoped to make it in March, but will slip to April
14:17:31 <matatk> regrets+ Dr_Keith
14:17:35 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:17:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/12-apa-minutes.html matatk
14:18:06 <Gottfried_> ... Specifications in community groups don't show on our radar. We do this for WG specs.
14:18:26 <Gottfried_> ... So, for community groups, we will need a review process.
14:19:01 <Gottfried_> ... Upcoming Advisory Committee meeting might empower APA to do this.
14:19:35 <Gottfried_> ... Hopefully we will add a brief clause about TAG-identified work from certain community groups.
14:20:14 <Gottfried_> matatk: Good summary.
14:20:20 <janina> topic: New Draft Charters
14:20:48 <Roy_Ruoxi> subtopic: Distributed Tracing Working Group Charter
14:20:48 <Roy_Ruoxi> - issue: https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/495
14:20:48 <Roy_Ruoxi> - charter: https://w3c.github.io/charter-drafts/2025/distributed-tracing-wg.html
14:21:57 <Gottfried_> Roy_Ruoxi: Looks relative low-level, related to protocols. I am good with this charter..
14:22:04 <Gottfried_> janina1: Anybody objecting?
14:22:09 <Gottfried_> (no objection)
14:22:23 <Gottfried_> zakim, next item
14:22:23 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- CSS inert review -- taken up [from matatk]
14:22:55 <matatk> Background reading (from agenda announcement): https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2025Mar/0004.html
14:22:55 <matatk> For convenience, links from the background reading, in case you need them on the call...
14:22:55 <matatk> Explainer for CSS carousel features (including inert): https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/blob/main/css-overflow-5/carousel-explainer.md
14:22:55 <matatk> TAG design review thread (featuring Alice's comment): https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/1055
14:22:57 <matatk> Background CSS WG discussion (featuring more details on the concerns): https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/10711
14:22:57 <matatk> Some questions I think we need to answer...
14:22:57 <matatk> 1. What level of concern do we have?
14:22:58 <matatk> 2. Would restricting inert to the top layer be sufficient?
14:22:58 <matatk> 3. What questions do we have?
14:22:58 <matatk> Any thoughts?
14:23:43 <Gottfried_> matatk: Everything is in my email, no need to scribe.
14:24:24 <chiace7> The current proposal for interactivity: inert is not tied to visible elements, which could lead to excessive or unintentional use. Has a mechanism been considered to visually indicate the "inert" state to developers (e.g., via DevTools or a specific pseudo-class like :inert)? If so, how could this mitigate implementation risks?
14:27:57 <Gottfried_> matatk: Alice had this concern as well. Suggested limiting it to the top layer which are usually styled visually.
14:28:20 <chiace7> Is there a plan to provide clear guidelines on when interactivity: inert should (or should not) be used? For example, in carousel design, how can we ensure that developers do not make entire sections of the page inert, compromising accessibility?
14:28:21 <janina> q?
14:28:37 <Gottfried_> ... We would like for APA to have a consensus on this.
14:29:03 <Gottfried_> matatk: We do not want to make it super easy to make mistakes.
14:29:25 <janina> q?
14:29:56 <Gottfried_> janina1: This seems to be more of a UI concern?
14:30:33 <Gottfried_> matatk: It may be a bit more. It does not change presentation, but functionality and focusability of things.
14:30:57 <Gottfried_> ... This is a new thing in CSS.
14:31:12 <Gottfried_> janina1: So it could be the stocking horse for other things of this kind?
14:31:51 <Gottfried_> ... So, at some point WCAG 3.0 will need to talk about it.
14:31:57 <Gottfried_> matatk: Would come in as technique.
14:33:03 <Gottfried_> ... With other complex features in CSS, the building blocks have been useful. In the context of carousels, scrolling and inertness are addressed as well.
14:34:00 <Gottfried_> ... My concern: If people start to make things inert that are not visible... What are the other use cases for this, except carousels?
14:34:41 <PaulG> q+
14:35:02 <Gottfried_> janina1: I feel we should move forward provisionally.
14:35:05 <matatk> ack PaulG
14:35:57 <Gottfried_> PaulG: I don't like carousels. Focus issues, arrow keying.
14:36:18 <chiace7> q+
14:36:25 <Gottfried_> ... You could do this with something else. Designers use them too much, developers do a bad job.
14:36:29 <matatk> q+
14:36:32 <matatk> ack chiace7
14:38:16 <Gottfried_> chiace7: Could work well in CSS. But could be overused by designers, in particular for offscreen elements.
14:38:40 <matatk> q?
14:39:04 <matatk> ack chiace
14:39:53 <Gottfried_> ... We need guidance on when to use it when not, regarding usability and accessibility.
14:40:05 <matatk> q?
14:40:06 <matatk> ack
14:40:08 <matatk> ack me
14:41:12 <Gottfried_> matatk: There are many ways to do carousels. Trying to fit all carousels in this scheme will not work.
14:41:31 <Gottfried_> ... We are concerned about the documentation for developers and the potential for misuse by developers.
14:42:03 <Gottfried_> ... Interested in use cases which requires a CSS property rather than a simple HTML attribute.
14:42:30 <Gottfried_> ... Are there other types of carousels other than apg?
14:42:48 <matatk> q?
14:42:49 <Gottfried_> PaulG: Larger list is on a different computer - will send it by email.
14:45:36 <Gottfried_> matatk: Propose to make an APA comment on our mailing list, expressing our concerns. Any objections?
14:45:40 <Gottfried_> (no objections)
14:46:03 <Gottfried_> janina1: We need to ask them WHY this is needed in CSS rather than HTML?
14:46:15 <janina> ack janina
14:46:35 <Gottfried_> zakim, next item
14:46:35 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Spec review requests -- taken up [from matatk]
14:46:51 <matatk> subtopic: webauthn-3
14:46:51 <matatk> Review request (public-facing thread): https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/101
14:46:51 <matatk> Due: 2025-03-31
14:46:51 <matatk> Changes in this version: https://www.w3.org/TR/2025/WD-webauthn-3-20250127/#changes-since-l2
14:46:52 <matatk> Accessibility Considerations section: https://www.w3.org/TR/2025/WD-webauthn-3-20250127/#sctn-accessiblility-considerations
14:46:52 <matatk> Previous APA review, including Fredrik's comments: <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Web_Authentication:_An_API_for_accessing_Public_Key_Credentials_-_Level_3>
14:47:13 <Gottfried_> matatk: Review in progress on Web authentication 3.
14:48:08 <Gottfried_> ... To look at: Accessibility considerations sections, are our previous concerns addressed?
14:48:21 <Gottfried_> zakim, next item
14:48:21 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Comment review requests -- taken up [from matatk]
14:48:47 <matatk> subtopic: Comment String Searching
14:48:47 <matatk> source: (Proposed APA comment, in draft)
14:48:47 <matatk> tracking: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-review/issues/222
14:48:47 <matatk> previous minutes: https://www.w3.org/2025/02/05-apa-minutes.html#eed7
14:49:05 <Gottfried_> ... This is a FPWD.
14:49:50 <Gottfried_> ... Paul had a good comment on it. We will progress this comment as soon as possible.
14:50:02 <Gottfried_> janina1: We can always address coga comments later.
14:50:23 <matatk> subtopic: Email: Comment: WCAG 3.0 accessibility guidelines: Accessing a "virtual" meeting using a teleconferencing application such as Zoom - receipt of streamed text content
14:50:23 <matatk> source: w3c/silver#476
14:50:23 <matatk> tracking: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-review/issues/223
14:51:02 <Gottfried_> matatk: About difficulty of accessing streaming text in a web conference.
14:51:40 <Gottfried_> ... Braille reading has a "speed limit" - bandwidth is smaller for somebody who is deaf-blind.
14:51:50 <Gottfried_> ... We need to find ways to summarize the contents of a meeting.
14:52:17 <Gottfried_> ... It is now in the WCAG3 repository.
14:52:53 <Gottfried_> ... There is something that could be added to the user reqs. But not sure we should do this.
14:53:03 <janina> https://www.w3.org/TR/ctaur/#social
14:53:07 <Gottfried_> ... For ITTF to consider...
14:53:54 <Gottfried_> janina1: Now we can reference it with our RTC comments.
14:54:56 <Gottfried_> matatk: Is there anything objective to say about this?
14:55:28 <Gottfried_> janina1: Hard to say. Simple solution: "Accommodate the people you have. Be mindful."
14:55:51 <Gottfried_> zakim, next item
14:55:51 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- CSS Update (Paul) -- taken up [from matatk]
14:56:03 <Gottfried_> janina1: Any other business?
14:56:07 <Gottfried_> (none)
14:56:11 <matatk> s/ITTF/RQTF/
14:56:13 <Gottfried_> Meeting is adjourned
14:56:37 <matatk> zakim, end meeting
14:56:37 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been PaulG, matatk, janina, Roy_Ruoxi, Gottfried, chiace, JonCohn
14:56:39 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:56:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/12-apa-minutes.html Zakim
14:56:47 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, matatk; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
14:56:47 <Zakim> Zakim has left #apa
15:01:28 <janina> rrsagent, bye
15:01:28 <RRSAgent> I see no action items