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16:44:38 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/03/06-rdf-star-irc
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16:45:33 <TallTed> meeting: RDF-star WG biweekly meeting
16:45:34 <TallTed> agendabot, find agenda
16:45:34 <agendabot> TallTed, OK. This may take a minute...
16:45:35 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/74e327bc-02ee-4b1d-be5a-4da49c812f23/20250306T120000/
16:45:35 <agendabot> clear agenda
16:45:35 <agendabot> agenda+ Approval of minutes from the last two meetings: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2025/02/20-rdf-star-minutes.html , -> 2 https://www.w3.org/2025/02/27-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:45:36 <agendabot> agenda+ Prioritization of next week's topics -> 3 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/6
16:45:39 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of open actions, available at -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3
16:45:42 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of pull requests, available at -> 5 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4
16:45:45 <agendabot> agenda+ Issue Triage, available at -> 6 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/5
16:45:48 <agendabot> agenda+ Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting
16:46:00 <TallTed> TallTed has changed the topic to: RDF-star WG Semantics TF -- agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/74e327bc-02ee-4b1d-be5a-4da49c812f23/20250306T120000/
16:47:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/06-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
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16:47:55 <TallTed> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/02/28-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:47:55 <TallTed> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/03/13-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:48:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/06-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
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16:55:57 <ktk> present+
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16:59:39 <TallTed> present+
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16:59:56 <pfps> present+
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17:00:35 <gtw> present+
17:00:39 <draggett> present+
17:00:39 <TallTed> TallTed has changed the topic to: RDF-star WG -- agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/74e327bc-02ee-4b1d-be5a-4da49c812f23/20250306T120000/
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17:00:56 <james> present+
17:01:10 <AZ> present+
17:01:14 <ora> ora has joined #rdf-star
17:01:16 <draggett> scribenick: draggett
17:01:23 <niklasl> present+
17:01:31 <ktk> regrets+ tl
17:01:35 <ora> present+
17:01:38 <ora> chair+
17:01:57 <olaf> present+
17:02:12 <fsasaki> present+
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17:02:32 <doerthe> present+
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17:03:36 <ktk> regrets+ pchampin
17:03:41 <Dominik_T> present+
17:03:58 <draggett> Topic: Approval of minutes from the last two meetings
17:04:01 <pfps> minutes look fine to me
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17:04:17 <ktk> Zakim, open item 1
17:04:17 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
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17:04:46 <ktk> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/74e327bc-02ee-4b1d-be5a-4da49c812f23/20250306T120000/
17:04:46 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:04:46 <agendabot> agenda+ Approval of minutes from the last two meetings: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2025/02/20-rdf-star-minutes.html , -> 2 https://www.w3.org/2025/02/27-rdf-star-minutes.html
17:04:46 <agendabot> agenda+ Prioritization of next week's topics -> 3 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/6
17:04:47 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of open actions, available at -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3
17:04:48 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of pull requests, available at -> 5 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4
17:04:50 <Souri> present+
17:04:51 <pfps> present+
17:04:51 <agendabot> agenda+ Issue Triage, available at -> 6 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/5
17:04:54 <agendabot> agenda+ Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting
17:04:56 <ktk> Zakim, open item 1
17:04:56 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Approval of minutes from the last two meetings: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2025/02/20-rdf-star-minutes.html , -> 2 https://www.w3.org/2025/02/27-rdf-star-minutes.html --
17:04:59 <Zakim> ... taken up [from agendabot]
17:05:16 <ora> PROPOSAL: Approve minutes of last two meetings
17:05:20 <pfps> +1
17:05:23 <AZ> +1
17:05:24 <ora> +1
17:05:27 <fsasaki> +1
17:05:28 <eBremer> +1
17:05:28 <ktk> +1
17:05:30 <AndyS> +1
17:05:38 <niklasl> +1
17:05:40 <Dominik_T> +1
17:05:50 <olaf> +1
17:05:57 <Souri> +1
17:06:01 <gtw> +1
17:06:04 <gkellogg> gkellogg has joined #rdf-star
17:06:14 <james> +1
17:06:32 <gkellogg> present+
17:06:37 <draggett> No objecttions.
17:06:37 <TallTed> +1
17:06:51 <ora> RESOLVED: Approve minutes of last two meetings
17:07:08 <ktk> Zakim, next item
17:07:08 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Prioritization of next week's topics -> 3 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/6 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:07:22 <AndyS> q+
17:07:34 <pfps> There are two long-standing issues that should be resolved #128 and #127
17:07:34 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/127 -> Issue 127 what properties can or should link to triple terms? (by afs) [needs discussion]
17:07:34 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/128 -> Issue 128 map the annotation syntax to `rdfs:states` (by rat10) [needs discussion] [propose closing]
17:07:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/06-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:07:52 <doerthe> doerthe has joined #rdf-star
17:07:59 <doerthe> present+
17:08:02 <ora> ack AndyS
17:08:02 <draggett> ora: I'd like a balance between easy and difficult things
17:08:21 <draggett> AndyS: We said we would review our documents to see if they are on schedule
17:08:53 <draggett> I note that the Primer isn't published yet.
17:09:12 <draggett> ora: pchampin was supposed to publish that, but isn't here today
17:09:34 <draggett> ora: I like the idea of getting a sense of where we are in respect to the plan
17:09:57 <pfps> I think that completeness of entailment should be discussed in the semantics meeting tomorrow.
17:10:09 <draggett> ora: even the less important items need to be progressed
17:10:40 <draggett> This is an action item on everybody
17:11:03 <draggett> gkellogg: there are 20 documents to track
17:11:39 <draggett> ora: the Primer is important to publish
17:11:42 <pfps> q+
17:11:51 <draggett> AndyS: we have a resolution on publishing that one
17:12:06 <ora> ack pfps
17:12:18 <draggett> Is the RDF 1.2 document ready?
17:12:32 <draggett> pfps: there are some pull requests to deal with first
17:12:57 <draggett> are concepts and semantics aligned?
17:13:27 <draggett> pfps: there's a PR on semantics, but it is currently blocked
17:13:49 <draggett> AndyS: that requires some coordination...
17:14:41 <draggett> pfps: we want to avoid things happening after the fact
17:15:02 <draggett> we need to progress the text on literals
17:15:43 <draggett> AndyS: are the top 4 PR's ready to merge?
17:16:29 <draggett> pfps: I want to avoid overriding people's wording suggestions without some review
17:16:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/06-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:17:14 <draggett> pfps: previously, the editor made changes for the WG to review, but that's not what we're following right now, which makes things harder
17:17:44 <draggett> ora: would it make sense next week to focus on which PRs are ready to merge?
17:19:08 <draggett> pfps: long standing objections to parts of the semantics
17:19:40 <draggett> we should look at these and vote on them
17:20:59 <draggett> pfps talks us through the outstanding choices
17:21:27 <draggett> enrico: can we review all these tomorrow, and close some of them
17:21:42 <draggett> ora: if you can take that on tomorrow, that would be great
17:22:21 <draggett> pfps: one of the requests is from James Andersen (not in the WG)
17:23:10 <draggett> ora: the semantics group should resolve as many requests as possible tomorrow
17:23:38 <draggett> ora: that would get us closer to a draft that the WG could review
17:24:42 <draggett> ora: Adrian you and I could discuss how to proceed
17:25:25 <draggett> pfps: the semantics group should vote on the semantic related issues
17:25:53 <draggett> ora:  I am in favor of that
17:26:00 <ktk> q?
17:26:38 <draggett> pfps: I will draw up a list of which issues to discuss in tomorrow's call
17:27:02 <draggett> Enrico: I wll include that in the agenda
17:27:29 <draggett> ora: we can then discuss the remaining open issues in next Thursday's call
17:27:56 <draggett> pfps: these should be listed by Tuesday
17:28:24 <draggett> Adrian: we will discuss this in the next chairs call
17:28:27 <niklasl> Sounds good to me.
17:28:37 <ktk> Zakim, next item
17:28:37 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Review of open actions, available at -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:29:24 <draggett> pfps: I did my action
17:29:54 <draggett> ora: there was an action for Enrico, have you done that?
17:30:06 <draggett> Enrico: I will work on it tomorrow morning
17:30:18 <draggett> ora: one for niklasl
17:30:46 <draggett> TallTed: can we put a link to the actions into the minutes as we close them
17:31:14 <ora> Zakim, next item
17:31:14 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Review of pull requests, available at -> 5 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:31:30 <draggett> ora: the rest are for pchampin who isn't here today, so I think we can move on
17:31:59 <draggett> pfps: the one about plain literals
17:32:35 <draggett> ora: I remember we had a discussion on this
17:33:10 <draggett> pfps: there was a complaint about it, should we say "deprecate"?
17:33:35 <draggett> it is kind of deprecated anyway in OWL and RIF
17:34:01 <draggett> ora: we can leave the term in the schema, but mark it as deprecated
17:34:40 <draggett> pfps: there are few editorial comments to merge in
17:35:14 <draggett> ora: we you pick up the substantive PRs in tomorrow's semantics call?
17:35:19 <draggett> pfps: yes
17:36:21 <draggett> AndyS: new PRs on SPARQL docs, in progress
17:37:33 <draggett> ora: anything else we can progress today?
17:38:04 <draggett> AndyS: I will close #197
17:38:05 <gb> Issue 197 not found
17:38:53 <draggett> ora: what about the 3 on tests? They've been around for a while now
17:39:26 <draggett> AndyS: we're agreed about what needs to be done
17:39:59 <draggett> greg: I will try to make some progress on that (??)
17:40:12 <gtw> s/greg:/gtw:/
17:40:15 <draggett> ora: what's blocking #165?
17:40:15 <gb> Issue 165 not found
17:40:45 <draggett> AndyS explains ...
17:41:33 <draggett> ora: I can spot anything else we can work on today
17:41:39 <draggett> s/can/can't/
17:41:54 <draggett> pfps: I tried to categorise the issues
17:42:20 <ora> Zakim, next item
17:42:20 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Issue Triage, available at -> 6 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/5 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:42:55 <draggett> pfps: I've put the proposed closing marker on several of the issues
17:43:21 <draggett> ora: should we look at those now?
17:43:34 <draggett> pfps: maybe, there's quite a few of them
17:43:59 <draggett> ora: if it is editorial and we've reviewed them, then let's close them
17:44:42 <james> q+
17:45:21 <pfps> I closed https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/83
17:45:21 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/83 -> CLOSED Issue 83 define list of RDF serialization formats (by VladimirAlexiev) [propose closing] [spec:editorial]
17:45:30 <AndyS> Closed -- https://github.com/w3c/sparql-query/pull/197 (replaces by 194)
17:45:30 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/sparql-query/pull/197 -> CLOSED Pull Request 197 Renames 'RDFterm-equal' to 'sameValue' (by hartig)
17:45:58 <ora> ack james
17:46:16 <AndyS> q+
17:46:18 <TallTed> q+
17:46:32 <ora> ack AndyS
17:46:42 <draggett> james: normative points need to be in the specs, not the primer
17:47:06 <pfps> I agree with Andy
17:47:27 <draggett> james: which MIME types need to be supported
17:47:45 <ora> ack TallTed
17:47:49 <draggett> AndyS: isn't that what HTTP content negotiation is for?
17:48:17 <draggett> TallTed: we do not require implementation of all the serialisations
17:48:53 <draggett> james: if any item in this list normative, and only so described in the Primer?
17:48:59 <ora> q+
17:49:23 <ora> ack ora
17:49:33 <AndyS> q+
17:49:45 <gkellogg> q+
17:49:47 <gtw> I don't think protocol requries any specific RDF formats.
17:49:49 <niklasl> https://www.w3.org/TR/ldp/ comes to mind
17:49:51 <ora> ack AndyS
17:49:53 <draggett> TallTed: the SPARQL spec does require something on this
17:50:23 <niklasl> q+
17:50:27 <draggett> AndyS: it is used in examples, but I don't see any normative text on required serialisations
17:50:29 <ora> ack gkellogg
17:51:50 <TallTed> s/SPARQL spec does require/SPARQL spec might require/
17:51:56 <ora> ack niklasl
17:51:57 <draggett> gkellogg: one could use yaml, but I don't see any evidence for normative requirements for serialisations
17:52:14 <AndyS> q+
17:53:01 <ora> ack AndyS
17:53:15 <AndyS> https://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-http-rdf-update/#graph-management
17:53:40 <niklasl> See also https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf12-concepts/#rdf-documents
17:53:42 <draggett> AndyS: SPARQL in section 5 does constrain the serialisations
17:54:18 <TallTed> q+
17:54:23 <draggett> james: I don't see a need to change this
17:54:55 <ora> ack TallTed
17:55:37 <draggett> TallTed: if you get one serialisation you can transform it to another via open source libraries, so the serialisation isn't critical
17:56:17 <james> q+
17:56:28 <ora> ack james
17:56:36 <draggett> ora: we've had these libraries for a very long time
17:56:58 <draggett> james: we could improve the wording (in SPARQL) if we think it is ambiguous
17:57:55 <draggett> ora: suggests james raises an issue so that we can clarify this
17:58:01 <draggett> james: okay
17:58:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/06-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:59:02 <draggett> ora: we've come to the end of this meeting
18:01:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/06-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
18:04:14 <TallTed> s/I note that the Primer isn't published yet./<pfps> I note that the Primer isn't published yet.
18:04:31 <TallTed> s/This is an action item on everybody/<pfps> This is an action item on everybody/
18:04:50 <TallTed> s/Is the RDF 1.2 document ready?/<pfps> Is the RDF 1.2 document ready?/
18:06:03 <TallTed> s/<pfps> I note that the Primer isn't published yet./<draggett> I note that the Primer isn't published yet.
18:06:03 <TallTed> s/<pfps> This is an action item on everybody/<draggett> This is an action item on everybody/
18:06:03 <TallTed> s/<pfps> Is the RDF 1.2 document ready?/<draggett> Is the RDF 1.2 document ready?/
18:06:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/06-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
18:06:57 <TallTed> s/are concepts and semantics aligned?/<draggett> are concepts and semantics aligned?/
18:07:10 <TallTed> s/we need to progress the text on literals/<draggett> we need to progress the text on literals/
18:08:10 <TallTed> s/we should look at these and vote on them/<draggett> we should look at these and vote on them/
18:08:10 <TallTed> s/pfps talks us through the outstanding choices/pfps: talks us through the outstanding choices/
18:08:45 <TallTed> s/it is kind of deprecated anyway in OWL and RIF/<draggett> it is kind of deprecated anyway in OWL and RIF/
18:08:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/06-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
18:09:33 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Souri, pfps, gkellogg, doerthe
18:09:33 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdf-star
18:09:39 <RRSAgent> I see no action items