15:02:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pwe
15:02:56 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/03/04-pwe-irc
15:02:56 <JenStrickland> JenStrickland has joined #pwe
15:03:03 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:03:04 <Zakim> Meeting: Positive Work Environment CG
15:03:04 <JenStrickland> present+
15:03:04 <wendyreid> date: 2025-03-04
15:03:05 <wendyreid> chair: wendyreid
15:03:14 <wendyreid> present+
15:03:59 <cwilso> present+
15:04:02 <wendyreid> Topic: Brainstorming an emergency Ombuds Plan
15:04:08 <cwilso> scribe: cwilso
15:04:39 <cwilso> sheila: we're developing the ombuds plan, but we don't have right now a plan for an interim plan if there's a threat of immediate harm.
15:05:05 <cwilso> ...we have a plan for raising grievances, but that's not meant to be realtime.
15:05:13 <cwilso> q+
15:05:28 <cwilso> ... if there's an emergency, what is the pathway we have to resolve it?
15:05:39 <wendyreid> ack cwilso
15:05:49 <wendyreid> scribe+
15:06:22 <wendyreid> cwilso: Agreed it's necessary and have done similar roles for events. This might be something the Team is responsible for or under their authority
15:06:32 <wendyreid> ... execution plan for addressing issues, and needs to be done well
15:06:54 <cwilso> s/This might/I this should
15:07:36 <cwilso> sheila: I agree; this should be members of the team, could be a recommendation to them.
15:07:56 <cwilso> wendy: I think I fall in the same camp.  Team should designate point people.
15:08:23 <cwilso> ...would be helpful for someone like Christine to have the legal review and assessment.
15:08:40 <cwilso> ...I think this is probably pretty standard procedure
15:09:15 <wendyreid> cwilso: In times I've been involved, there is an external and internal plan, what happens when someone raises an issue with a staff member.
15:09:29 <wendyreid> ... response to an internal channel, coordinate whatever action is needed
15:10:19 <cwilso> jen: this sounds like a plan for in-person, but do we have a plan for non-in person?
15:10:23 <cwilso> q+
15:10:29 <wendyreid> ack cwilso
15:11:01 <wendyreid> cwilso: That's the ombuds plan, it's not been operationalized at the speed we need on an ongoing basis, but its there
15:11:39 <cwilso> wendy: in the emergency plan there should be a provision/section for remote response
15:12:07 <cwilso> +1; probably the way to think of it is real-time vs async response.
15:12:32 <cwilso> wendy: just as likely to happen in zoom chat or side channels.
15:12:51 <cwilso> jen: happens in WGs today.
15:13:14 <cwilso> ...[redacted] gets feisty
15:14:04 <cwilso> wendy: sometimes the chair needs to be made aware; I don't always see everything that happens.
15:14:21 <cwilso> jen: sometimes chairs don't always hear things.
15:14:31 <cwilso> s/hear/handle
15:18:06 <cwilso> jen: I like the idea of having this documented.
15:20:28 <cwilso> wendy: we do have a structure in place; ombuds@w3.org
15:20:46 <cwilso> ...but it's not formalized, we don't have the structure an org of this size needs
15:20:59 <cwilso> ...we have the day-to-day handled
15:21:00 <cwilso> q+
15:21:45 <cwilso> ...TPAC might be handled, but not WG meetings
15:22:11 <wendyreid> ack cwilso
15:22:46 <Ralph> [joining late]
15:23:01 <Ralph> present+
15:25:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/04-pwe-minutes.html Ralph
15:25:34 <cwilso> wendy: behavioral enforcement cannot come from within; a lot of time you're too close to the problem
15:25:59 <Ralph> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pwe/2025Mar/0000.html
15:26:16 <JenStrickland> Intent v Impact
15:26:22 <cwilso> +1
15:26:33 <JenStrickland> q+
15:26:42 <cwilso> q+
15:27:18 <wendyreid> ack JenStrickland
15:27:19 <cwilso> ack jen
15:27:23 <Ralph> [It's good to view a behavior from the perspective of someone who just joined the group]
15:28:12 <Ralph> [We do not want the situation that a person new to the group observes an uncomfortable interaction and does not see it corrected]
15:28:55 <cwilso> jen: sometimes, individuals are so strident/confident; sometimes people make allowances for people who are socially clueless/rude; even if that's for reasons, we need to not allow it.
15:29:25 <cwilso> ...sometimes people don't realize they are being socially unaware.
15:30:47 <cwilso> ...sometimes people get away with things/get allowances made for them.
15:31:32 <cwilso> +1 Ralph. [It's good to view a behavior from the perspective of someone who just joined the group, We do not want the situation that a person new to the group observes an uncomfortable interaction and does not see it corrected]
15:31:43 <Ralph> i|date: 2025|-> https://www.w3.org/2025/02/04-pwe-minutes previous 04-Feb
15:32:09 <cwilso> jen: it's also problematic with people who are looked up to; people will get intimidated because those are their heroes.
15:32:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/04-pwe-minutes.html Ralph
15:33:47 <wendyreid> ack cwilso
15:36:14 <JenStrickland> q+
15:37:25 <wendyreid> ack JenStrickland
15:37:30 <cwilso> wendy: there are a lot of people who just walk away
15:39:01 <cwilso> jen: I have a whole group of techies who have walked away because their interaction needs weren't being accommodated.
15:40:39 <cwilso> jen: we need something in place now
15:40:59 <cwilso> wendy: we have the ombuds program in place, we want to make it a lot better.
15:41:02 <Ralph> [Ombuds are not "emergency responders"]
15:41:12 <cwilso> q+
15:42:04 <wendyreid> ack cwilso
15:42:25 <Ralph> https://ioa.memberclicks.net/index.php?option=com_dailyplanetblog&view=entry&year=2024&month=11&day=13&id=321:in-practice-ombuds-dilemmas-do-ombuds-provide-emergency-services-
15:42:54 <wendyreid> ack Ralph
15:43:58 <JenStrickland> It might be good to be explicit for all face to face events.
15:44:13 <cwilso> ralph: if it's a threat of physical harm or violence, I would hope we get to "call security".  In more complicated situations it's something we should develop more clear guidance.
15:44:58 <JenStrickland> q+
15:45:03 <cwilso> ...interested in what others have developed, because I dont think it's reasonably to expect a small group of people to enforce; it needs to be the community.
15:45:04 <cwilso> q+
15:45:56 <cwilso> ...in the case of long-term member of the community, that has a disability, it might need some polite interaction explaining why allowances are made.
15:46:06 <cwilso> q-
15:46:11 <cwilso> q+ to respond to Ralph
15:47:09 <wendyreid> ack JenStrickland
15:47:49 <cwilso> jen: I agree it's the responsibility of the community.  the community may not feel emboldened to speak up (cf current NA political situation)
15:48:31 <cwilso> ... I'd rather see it from the AB rather than Seth: speak up to make sure the community is aware of their own behavior.
15:49:11 <wendyreid> ack cwilso
15:49:11 <Zakim> cwilso, you wanted to respond to Ralph
15:49:12 <Ralph> +1 to Jen: a message to our community acknowledging current challenges
15:49:19 <cwilso> ...we are at a point in time where we need to hear from our leadership; strong leadership.
15:54:39 <wendyreid> ack Ralph
15:55:47 <cwilso> ralph: there's a nuance here: there's a set of people I know well, and in that environment I can use different set of behaviors.
15:55:50 <cwilso> +1
15:56:34 <cwilso> ...if a person who doesn't know me well observes that, how would they perceive it?
15:56:57 <JenStrickland> q+
15:57:05 <cwilso> qq+
15:57:15 <wendyreid> ack cwilso
15:57:15 <Zakim> cwilso, you wanted to react to Ralph
15:57:32 <wendyreid> cwilso: Self-policing is necessary but not sufficient
15:57:41 <wendyreid> ack JenStrickland
15:58:40 <cwilso> jen: one of the things we need to seek to understand is the need to "make points": to win battles
15:59:07 <cwilso> q+
15:59:11 <wendyreid> ack cwilso
15:59:34 <dbooth> dbooth has joined #pwe
15:59:41 <dbooth> rrsagent, pointer?
15:59:41 <RRSAgent> See https://www.w3.org/2025/03/04-pwe-irc#T15-59-41
16:00:18 <dbooth> Sorry to have missed today's call!
16:01:21 <wendyreid> zakim, end meeting
16:01:21 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been JenStrickland, wendyreid, cwilso, Ralph
16:01:24 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
16:01:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/04-pwe-minutes.html Zakim
16:01:31 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, wendyreid; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
16:01:31 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pwe
16:06:39 <Ralph> [had to drop]
17:10:35 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
17:10:35 <RRSAgent> I see no action items