08:59:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #data-shapes
08:59:47 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/03/03-data-shapes-irc
08:59:47 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
08:59:48 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), caribou
08:59:48 <nicholascar> present+
08:59:59 <caribou> meeting: Data Shapes WG telelconference
09:00:06 <elianaP> present+
09:00:16 <Robert> Robert has joined #data-shapes
09:00:20 <YoucTagh> present+
09:00:26 <Robert> present+
09:02:56 <tpluscode> tpluscode has joined #data-shapes
09:02:56 <bergos> bergos has joined #data-shapes
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09:03:14 <caribou> Chair: Nick, Eliana
09:03:20 <simonstey> present+
09:03:23 <bergos> present+
09:03:45 <HolgerK> present+
09:03:51 <caribou> Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/blob/agenda/admin/agenda-2025-03-03.md
09:04:20 <Simon> Simon has joined #data-shapes
09:04:37 <caribou> scribe: Carine
09:04:45 <caribou> scribenick: caribou
09:04:55 <caribou> Topic: Node Expressions
09:05:10 <caribou> -> https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/issues/222 Issue 222
09:05:46 <caribou> Holger: the goal is to define node expressions and cover the most basic use cases
09:05:57 <caribou> ... there are no change to Core
09:06:43 <caribou> ... The group needs agreement to push to the main branch
09:07:15 <caribou> Nick: I suggest that it gets resolved in GH
09:07:33 <caribou> ... it would be a new deliverable?
09:07:52 <caribou> Holger: It does not add a deliverable, it's a PR to add text into Core
09:08:04 <AndyS> q+
09:08:06 <ajnelson-nist> q+
09:08:14 <caribou> q+
09:09:38 <caribou> Robert: no objection from my side
09:10:52 <caribou> AlexN: I don't want to hold up this PR nor FPWD publication
09:11:35 <HolgerK> q+ to say that sh:this is not in this PR and we will likely not use it moving forward.
09:11:46 <caribou> Nick: we'll get to the concerns about shacl-shacl elsewhere
09:12:12 <nicholascar> q?
09:12:13 <ajnelson-nist> q-
09:13:07 <caribou> AndyS: I asked Ted to re-review because changes were made
09:13:34 <caribou> ... not sure whether it's good that anyone can block a PR
09:14:54 <caribou> q+
09:15:30 <caribou> AndyS: I want to see progress to FPWD
09:16:30 <caribou> Nick: it does not seem that other issues will affect the publication decision
09:16:42 <caribou> ... how many responses to the CfC?
09:17:04 <ajnelson-nist> q+
09:17:24 <Simon> present+
09:17:30 <caribou> AndyS: are we putting this PR in before publication?
09:18:03 <ajnelson-nist> q-
09:18:42 <nicholascar> q?
09:18:52 <Zakim> HolgerK, you wanted to say that sh:this is not in this PR and we will likely not use it moving forward.
09:19:21 <nicholascar> q?
09:19:25 <caribou> Holger: all URIs will be treated uniformly, I think AlexN's issue has been resolved
09:25:22 <nicholascar> Following this meeting we will ask all members to re-review as per the CFC due to recent (last week's) changes.
09:25:48 <nicholascar> After FPWDs we will likely move to automatic publication where merged PRs automatically publish
09:27:41 <ajnelson-nist> q+
09:27:45 <nicholascar> q?
09:28:00 <caribou> AlexN: do we need to respond to CfC by email?
09:28:02 <ajnelson-nist> ack me
09:28:02 <caribou> Nick: yes
09:28:28 <caribou> Topic: sh:shapeClass
09:28:43 <ash> ash has joined #data-shapes
09:28:48 <caribou> Holger: 1 review said it could confuse RDF engines
09:29:10 <caribou> AlexN: my concern is still there
09:29:32 <caribou> ... there's rdfs:class
09:30:16 <caribou> ... it's a long discussion thread
09:30:48 <simonstey> https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/issues/212
09:30:55 <ajnelson-nist> q+
09:31:30 <caribou> Topic: @@@
09:31:39 <caribou> Holger: already merged
09:32:40 <HolgerK> q+
09:32:48 <AndyS> https://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/shacl12-core/#changes-12
09:33:15 <caribou> s/@@@/PR 264
09:33:24 <nicholascar> q?
09:33:31 <AndyS> The changes section of SHACL core
09:34:08 <caribou> Holger: I think we can have Changes from GH?
09:34:41 <caribou> Nick: We should just record bigger changes, GH history would include too many small things
09:35:00 <nicholascar> q?
09:35:01 <HolgerK> ack me
09:35:06 <ajnelson-nist> ack me
09:36:54 <ajnelson-nist> q+
09:36:59 <nicholascar> q?
09:37:02 <tpluscode> q+
09:37:42 <nicholascar> ack ajnelson-nist
09:37:44 <nicholascar> q?
09:37:56 <nicholascar> ack tpluscode
09:38:51 <caribou> Tomasz: I'd like a place to ask questions and have discussions
09:38:52 <AndyS> q+
09:39:03 <nicholascar> ack AndyS
09:39:17 <caribou> AndyS: I created an open-ended issue
09:39:38 <caribou> -> https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/issues/282 Andy's issue
09:39:58 <bergos> q+
09:40:07 <caribou> Nick: things must be actioned in issues, but discussion can happen elsewhere
09:40:38 <nicholascar> q?
09:41:54 <caribou> Bergos: when we open discussion for everything there might be too much noise
09:42:56 <caribou> Nick: we need to have discipline to avoid non-spec discussions
09:43:17 <AndyS> ack bergos
09:43:24 <YoucTagh> q+
09:43:31 <caribou> ... we will close issues when it's just discussions
09:45:06 <caribou> Topic: SHACL Inferencing - WG asking on the public list for use cases requirements
09:45:20 <caribou> AndyS: we need the input from the WG
09:46:16 <caribou> AlexN: we have a tag for that in GH issues tracker
09:46:18 <nicholascar> q?
09:46:35 <caribou> Topic: Consider using W3C WBS (W3C's web based voting and questionaire system) for CfC's
09:46:55 <caribou> Nick: we can do that for the next time we need a CfC.
09:47:18 <caribou> Topic: Addressing Older Issues
09:47:32 <caribou> Nick: I think we can close some of those old issues
09:47:41 <caribou> ... I grouped them in the agenda
09:47:42 <ajnelson-nist> q+
09:48:45 <nicholascar> ack ajnelson-nist
09:48:55 <caribou> AlexN: I see low-hanging fruits
09:49:07 <caribou> ... can I self-assign in GH?
09:49:13 <ajnelson-nist> ack me
09:49:16 <caribou> Nick: yes
09:50:52 <ajnelson-nist> q+
09:51:05 <nicholascar> q?
09:51:12 <nicholascar> ack ajnelson-nist
09:51:22 <tpluscode> q+
09:51:22 <caribou> AlexN: volunteers to maintain shacl-shacl
09:51:37 <elianaP> q+
09:52:19 <caribou> Nick: the document might not be normative
09:52:28 <nicholascar> q?
09:52:51 <ajnelson-nist> ack me
09:53:36 <caribou> AndyS: there might be issues with tools/code
09:53:46 <caribou> ... it might be normative
09:54:03 <caribou> Tomasz: I think it needs a separate process
09:54:24 <nicholascar> q?
09:54:26 <AndyS> s/AndyS: there might be/ajnelson-nist: there might be/
09:54:28 <caribou> ... someone could refactor and have the same shapes in the end
09:54:33 <tpluscode> q-
09:54:44 <caribou> Eliana: last time we discussed making it a non-normative note
09:55:02 <caribou> ... to be able to maintain without the constraint to make changes
09:55:48 <caribou> Nick: we can have the model (normative) in a doc and a schema that is not
09:56:09 <caribou> Eliana: agree with that approach
09:56:13 <ajnelson-nist> q+
09:56:13 <ajnelson-nist> q+
09:56:22 <elianaP> ack me
09:56:28 <nicholascar> q?
09:56:39 <caribou> Nick: the shacl file would be hosted by W3C somewhere
09:56:58 <caribou> AlexN: @@@
09:57:32 <ajnelson-nist> ack me
09:58:00 <caribou> Nick: the CG was active to maintain things before, so we would able to maintain later on
09:59:50 <caribou> ... it can be a phase 2 document as a WG Note
09:59:54 <elianaP> q
09:59:56 <YoucTagh> q+
10:01:12 <YoucTagh> ack me
10:01:12 <nicholascar> q?
10:02:41 <caribou> zakim, end meeting
10:02:41 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been nicholascar, elianaP, YoucTagh, Robert, simonstey, bergos, HolgerK, Simon
10:02:43 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
10:02:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/03/03-data-shapes-minutes.html Zakim
10:02:52 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, caribou; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
10:02:52 <Zakim> Zakim has left #data-shapes
10:04:03 <ajnelson-nist> Oh, I apparently said "present+" before the meeting technically started.
10:04:36 <RRSAgent> I see no action items