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14:33:54 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:33:55 <Zakim> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
14:34:04 <maryjom> zakim, clear agenda
14:34:04 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:34:09 <maryjom> chair:  Mary Jo Mueller
14:34:16 <maryjom> rrsagent, make minutes
14:34:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/27-wcag2ict-minutes.html maryjom
14:34:25 <maryjom> agenda+ Announcements
14:35:18 <maryjom> agenda+ Develop WCAG2ICT "Explainer" Content
14:35:35 <maryjom> agenda+ Analysis spreadsheet - SC that could use more extensive language changes
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14:57:12 <maryjom> present+
14:57:41 <PhilDay> present+
14:59:44 <PhilDay> agenda?
15:00:30 <PhilDay> scribe+ PhilDay
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15:01:31 <bruce_bailey> present+
15:01:34 <loicmn> Present+
15:02:19 <PhilDay> zakim, take up item 1
15:02:19 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Announcements -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:02:32 <maryjom> regrets: Daniel, Mitchell
15:04:01 <PhilDay> This week - a big request. The mobile accessibility task force is hoping to publish 1st public working draft of their guidance for mobile.
15:04:37 <PhilDay> It would be helpful if members of the WCAG2ICT can review - to check consistency with WCAG2ICT - as there may be modifications.
15:05:02 <PhilDay> https://w3c.github.io/matf/
15:05:39 <PhilDay> This is “pre-CFC”, i.e. a good (but last) chance to comment before we go into a CFC.
15:05:39 <PhilDay> This publication will mark the first step towards the process of publishing a Group Note.
15:05:39 <PhilDay> This is your last chance to comment for changes, either at:
15:05:39 <PhilDay> https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues
15:05:40 <PhilDay> Or to public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org
15:05:56 <PhilDay> Email sent out on Tuesday 25 Feb from Alastair Campbell
15:07:04 <PhilDay> 1 week to review the mobile task force working draft
15:07:46 <ChrisLoiselle> present+
15:07:57 <PhilDay> Does anyone have any time to review this doc in the next week?
15:08:26 <ChrisLoiselle> I have no bandwidth :( I suggest comment would be to hold off and put under WCAG2ICT
15:08:36 <ChrisLoiselle> q+
15:09:15 <bruce_bailey> i agree it is missed opportunity not too coordinate more closely
15:09:20 <PhilDay> We may need to provide comment during the 30-day public comment period.
15:10:34 <bruce_bailey> q+ to ask if we could ask MATF to identify any areas of friction between their work and ours?
15:11:06 <PhilDay> Chris: Think there is still some discussion to have about how it relates to other W3C - where it is published and how it is organised is an open question. e.g. Is it a subset of WCAG2ICT?
15:11:24 <PhilDay> s/Chris/ChrisLoiselle
15:11:31 <maryjom> ack ChrisLoiselle
15:11:34 <ChrisLoiselle> +1 to Bruce. I had that same idea
15:11:35 <maryjom> ack bruce_bailey
15:11:35 <Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to ask if we could ask MATF to identify any areas of friction between their work and ours?
15:12:01 <PhilDay> bruce_bailey: Shame we don't have more time to coordinate. But suggest we ask them for input on where they think there might be areas of friction or challenges, so we can focus on those specific areas.
15:12:26 <loicmn> loicmn has left #wcag2ict
15:12:27 <PhilDay> maryjom: To meet up with JJ after CSUN - will discuss matters then
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15:13:01 <loicmn6> present+
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15:13:17 <shadi> present+
15:13:32 <shadi> rrsagent, pointer?
15:13:32 <RRSAgent> See https://www.w3.org/2025/02/27-wcag2ict-irc#T15-13-32
15:13:45 <PhilDay> Recap for shadi: This week - a big request. The mobile accessibility task force is hoping to publish 1st public working draft of their guidance for mobile.
15:13:45 <PhilDay> It would be helpful if members of the WCAG2ICT can review - to check consistency with WCAG2ICT - as there may be modifications.
15:13:45 <PhilDay> https://w3c.github.io/matf/
15:14:16 <bruce_bailey> q+ to mention that MATF might be of more utility to recent DOJ ADA web rule than WCAG2ICT
15:14:41 <PhilDay> ack bruce_bailey
15:14:41 <Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to mention that MATF might be of more utility to recent DOJ ADA web rule than WCAG2ICT
15:14:43 <maryjom> ack bruce_bailey
15:15:19 <PhilDay> bruce_bailey: MATF might be of more utility to recent DOJ ADA web rule than WCAG2ICT - as this references primarily mobile, but points to WCAG2ICT at the moment
15:16:20 <PhilDay> maryjom: Need to consider inconsistencies with WCAG2ICT and also new EN 301 549 draft.
15:16:49 <PhilDay> ... And some ideas might only apply to mobile, not to all software.
15:17:10 <PhilDay> zakim, next item
15:17:10 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Develop WCAG2ICT "Explainer" Content -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:17:30 <PhilDay> Google doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hyei09Viby1bCoZnDLYwY9VWpzRvteK9pqt4v9sWCJE/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.9xfsb5gpu681
15:17:41 <PhilDay> +1 to reviewing draft comment
15:17:41 <ChrisLoiselle> +1
15:17:46 <loicmn6> +1
15:17:52 <bruce_bailey> +1 that guidance to U.S. states needs to be harmonized with guidance to Europe.
15:18:02 <PhilDay> maryjom: to work on drafting an initial comment on mobile TF.
15:18:11 <bruce_bailey> +1 to reviewing draft maryjom draft comment
15:18:33 <PhilDay> maryjom: Cleaned up comments, accepted suggested changes etc to make it easier to review.
15:18:43 <PhilDay> [maryjom sharing screen˙
15:18:51 <PhilDay> s/'/]
15:20:21 <bruce_bailey> q+
15:20:43 <maryjom> ack bruce_bailey
15:20:51 <PhilDay> Proposed edit: WCAG2ICT is the acronym used for the W3C Guidance on Applying WCAG 2 to Non-web Information and Communication Technology Group Note.
15:20:56 <bruce_bailey> sometimes WCAG2ICT is the doc sometimes its the TF
15:21:52 <PhilDay> maryjom: Add TF when we refer to the task force later to differentiate between document and task force
15:22:02 <PhilDay> And refer to group note when we refer to the doc
15:23:21 <PhilDay> Latest version "who develops"
15:23:23 <PhilDay> Who develops WCAG2ICT
15:23:23 <PhilDay> The WCAG2ICT Group Note is developed by a Task Force (TF) of the Accessibility Guidelines Working Group (AG WG). The work statement defines the objectives, scope, approach, and so on for the WCAG2ICT Group Note. The participants of the WCAG2ICT TF are volunteers drawn from W3C member organizations and invited experts and are supported by WAI staff.
15:23:35 <bruce_bailey> q+
15:23:47 <PhilDay> Version being reviewed: Background and Development History for WCAG2ICT
15:23:47 <PhilDay> This document is intended to help clarify how to use WCAG 2 to make non-web documents and non-web software more accessible to people with disabilities.  Addressing accessibility involves addressing the needs of people with auditory, cognitive, neurological, physical, speech, and visual disabilities, and the needs of people with accessibility
15:23:47 <PhilDay> requirements due to the effects of aging.  Although this document covers a wide range of issues, it is not able to address all the needs of all people with disabilities.  Because WCAG 2 was developed for the Web, addressing accessibility for non-web documents and non-web software may involve requirements beyond those included in this document.
15:23:47 <PhilDay> Authors and developers are encouraged to seek relevant advice about current best practices to ensure that non-web documents and non-web software are accessible, as far as possible, to people with disabilities.
15:23:54 <maryjom> ack bruce_bailey
15:24:48 <shadi> q+
15:25:30 <PhilDay> q+ to say Web or web
15:25:43 <maryjom> ack shadi
15:25:43 <PhilDay> ack shadi
15:26:05 <bruce_bailey> I had originally intended to reference the Access Board second ANPRM and suggesting WCAG incorporation by reference for software, and industry had concerns.
15:26:16 <bruce_bailey> +1 to shadi
15:27:06 <PhilDay> shadi: Good summary of what the document is -maybe the title should be changed. Sentences 2 & 3 removed or moved to end. (Addressing accessibility... and Although this document...)
15:27:13 <loicmn6> +1 to shadi proposal to delete sentences 2 & 3.
15:27:39 <loicmn6> q+ to say Replace this document by WCAG2ICT group note
15:28:17 <PhilDay> ... Another minor comment. "relevant advice" - is this document irrelevant? Maybe change to "additional advice"
15:29:21 <PhilDay> maryjom: Maybe worth talking about previous attempts to use WCAG outside of the web, so this document was created to provide that guidance.
15:29:24 <shadi> q+
15:29:34 <maryjom> ack PhilDay
15:29:34 <Zakim> PhilDay, you wanted to say Web or web
15:29:58 <ChrisLoiselle> Phil, I think we could move to intent and usage
15:30:39 <PhilDay> PhilDay: suggest sentences 2-3 move to intent & usage.
15:30:52 <PhilDay> maryjom: Other sentences to go into introduction
15:31:02 <maryjom> ack loicmn6
15:31:07 <maryjom> loicmn
15:31:36 <PhilDay> loicmn6: "This document" - should "The WCAG2ICT group note is intended to"
15:31:37 <bruce_bailey> Again, I started from 2013 https://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-wcag2ict-20130905/#intro
15:31:38 <shadi> +1 good point!
15:31:50 <PhilDay> q?
15:31:52 <maryjom> ack shadi
15:31:53 <PhilDay> ack loicmn6
15:32:34 <PhilDay> shadi: Could be a section called "Why this was created"
15:32:35 <PhilDay> explain intent to apply WCAG to non-web software - mention US Access Board etc.
15:33:21 <PhilDay> q?
15:33:32 <loicmn6> q-
15:33:50 <PhilDay> [Now looking at Goals]
15:33:57 <PhilDay> Goals
15:33:58 <PhilDay> Brief description of the main goal for WCAG2ICT - in a sentence or two.
15:33:58 <PhilDay> This document is a companion “explainer” for the WCAG2ICT W3C Group Note.  It is meant to be…..
15:35:55 <PhilDay> Addition for Background & dev history: This section should cover need for WCAG2ICT Group Note and how it was developed to provide the interpretation for use with regulatory standards (508, EN 301549).
15:36:40 <PhilDay> There was a version from 2013 which covered WCAG 2.0 and the latest version of WCAG2ICT covers all WCAG 2 versions.
15:37:17 <shadi> q+
15:37:41 <maryjom> ack shadi
15:37:42 <PhilDay> ack shadi
15:38:14 <PhilDay> shadi: This document doesn't provide "the interpretation".
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15:38:56 <Sam> present+
15:38:57 <PhilDay> ... provides guidance or clarification from a W3C perspective to help those who wish to apply WCAG to non-web...
15:39:58 <PhilDay> Latest rough draft: This section should cover need for WCAG2ICT Group Note and how it was developed to provide guidance and considerations for applying WCAG in non-web contexts. This helped regulatory standards (508, EN 301549) adopt WCAG criteria for non-web documents and software. There was a version from 2013 which covered WCAG 2.0 and the
15:39:58 <PhilDay> latest version of WCAG2ICT covers all WCAG 2 versions.
15:40:54 <PhilDay> We may not need a Goal section
15:41:13 <PhilDay> If it ends up being too repetitive...
15:41:46 <PhilDay> Still more work to do later in the doc
15:42:48 <PhilDay> References have been cleaned up
15:44:16 <PhilDay> Feel free to add to the document during the week, ready for next week
15:44:20 <PhilDay> zakim, next item
15:44:20 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Analysis spreadsheet - SC that could use more extensive language changes -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:44:41 <PhilDay> Google sheet for analysis: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cRGxHxV0mBEI_rvcc2EXS9xcBanQjG6k/edit?gid=1726579776#gid=1726579776
15:45:00 <PhilDay> Friday meeting has not worked - nobody has been able to attend.
15:45:10 <PhilDay> So we will try and do some of the work in this Thursday session
15:45:35 <PhilDay> Assign yourself to a few SCs, then go away and suggest if we need any changes
15:45:42 <PhilDay> (e.g. CSS pixels)
15:50:53 <PhilDay> Latest editor's draft for ref: https://w3c.github.io/wcag2ict/
15:58:06 <PhilDay> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:58:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/27-wcag2ict-minutes.html PhilDay
15:59:20 <maryjom> Group worked the remainder of the meeting on filling in the spreadsheet and discussing comments entered into the spreadsheet.
15:59:31 <maryjom> rrsagent, make minutes
15:59:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/27-wcag2ict-minutes.html maryjom
15:59:41 <maryjom> scribe+
15:59:55 <maryjom> scribe+ maryjom
16:01:22 <maryjom> shadi: Why would consistent navigation be applied to elements with the same functionality repeated **on the same page**?
16:02:09 <maryjom> loic: This can happen  where at the top of the page you have "Previous" and "Next" and may be the opposite order at the bottom of the page.
16:02:25 <maryjom> ...will provide additional examples for us to discuss next time.
16:02:36 <maryjom> rrsagent, make minutes
16:02:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/27-wcag2ict-minutes.html maryjom
16:03:28 <maryjom> zakim, end meeting
16:03:28 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been bruce_bailey, PhilDay, maryjom, GreggVan, loicmn, ChrisLoiselle, shadi, Sam
16:03:30 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
16:03:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/27-wcag2ict-minutes.html Zakim
16:03:38 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, maryjom; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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