17:57:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
17:57:41 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/02/27-aria-irc
17:57:41 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:57:42 <Zakim> Meeting: ARIA WG
17:57:42 <spectranaut_> chair: ValerieYoung
17:57:47 <spectranaut_> agendabot, find agenda
17:57:47 <agendabot> spectranaut_, OK. This may take a minute...
17:57:48 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/2b57854a-65cb-421e-b9e0-f9a8da31f160/20250227T130000/
17:57:48 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:57:48 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New Issue Triage https://tinyurl.com/7ca5cv4v
17:57:48 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New PR Triage https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+created%3A%3E%3D2025-02-20+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria&type=Issues
17:57:51 <agendabot> agenda+ -> WPT Open PRs https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y
17:57:53 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates
17:57:56 <agendabot> agenda+ -> (re)Consider name from encapsulation for specific roles https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2440
17:57:59 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Should the ARIA WG standardize heuristic-based ignoring of ARIA and related features? And if so, how? https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2422
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18:01:53 <giacomo-petri> present+
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18:03:40 <spectranaut_> zakim, pick a victim
18:03:40 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose giacomo-petri
18:03:43 <Rahim> present+
18:03:50 <smockle> present+
18:03:53 <giacomo-petri> scribe+
18:03:59 <katez> katez has joined #aria
18:04:02 <katez> present+
18:04:08 <giacomo-petri> zakim, take up next
18:04:08 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- -> New Issue Triage https://tinyurl.com/7ca5cv4v -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:04:27 <Daniel> scribe+ giacomo-petri
18:04:36 <filippo-zorzi> present+
18:04:48 <Summer> Summer has joined #aria
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18:05:04 <Summer> present+
18:06:13 <giacomo-petri> spectranaut_ https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2458 from Aaron and https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2456 from Scott added to agenda
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18:10:55 <giacomo-petri> https://github.com/w3c/dpub-aria/issues/70 from Giacomo, raised a spec issue where acc name is required but no aria state/proeprty is allowed
18:11:19 <giacomo-petri> jcraig think it should be addressed
18:13:31 <giacomo-petri> spectranaut_ https://github.com/w3c/dpub-aria/issues/71 from Giacomo
18:13:47 <giacomo-petri> giacomo-petri this is just an editorial, that removes duplication
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18:14:22 <giacomo-petri> jcraig this can slide after publication, the 1st not
18:14:44 <giacomo-petri> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2447 from ianthedev
18:15:57 <giacomo-petri> keith: I'll respond to this
18:16:37 <giacomo-petri> spectranaut_: https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2445 from sideshowbarker
18:16:43 <CurtBellew> present+
18:17:02 <giacomo-petri> spectranaut_ already in editors agenda
18:17:07 <giacomo-petri> Zakim, take up next
18:17:07 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+created%3A%3E%3D2025-02-20+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria&type=Issues -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:17:17 <giacomo-petri> Zakim, close this item
18:17:17 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
18:17:18 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:17:18 <Zakim> 3. -> WPT Open PRs https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y [from agendabot]
18:17:21 <giacomo-petri> Zakim, take up next
18:17:21 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- -> WPT Open PRs https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:18:28 <giacomo-petri> spectranaut_ I'll take a look at some of them
18:19:16 <Daniel> present+
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18:20:48 <lola> present+
18:21:08 <giacomo-petri> jcraig merging https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/pull/50637 as long as all browsers are consistent
18:25:29 <giacomo-petri> spectranaut_ anyone wants to review https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/pull/50507?
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18:25:40 <siri> present+
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18:26:06 <giacomo-petri> spectranaut_ I'll take a look again
18:26:50 <giacomo-petri> Zakim, take up next item
18:26:50 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:28:09 <giacomo-petri> spectranaut_: https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2427 what about 20th 1hour before our regular meeting?
18:28:22 <giacomo-petri> jcraig: it works for me
18:28:37 <giacomo-petri> aaron: ok for me
18:28:45 <giacomo-petri> Zakim, take up next item
18:28:45 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- -> (re)Consider name from encapsulation for specific roles https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2440 -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:29:22 <Adam_Page> present+
18:30:29 <giacomo-petri> scott: related to the issue about required acc name for specific roles that do not need a required acc name
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18:31:59 <giacomo-petri> scott: there are roles that should be named by the context/encapsulation of the element
18:32:21 <giacomo-petri> scott: such as name from heading, caption, etc.
18:34:42 <giacomo-petri> spectranaut_ no objection on that in the group from a theoretical point of view
18:34:47 <giacomo-petri> Zakim, take up next
18:34:47 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- -> Should the ARIA WG standardize heuristic-based ignoring of ARIA and related features? And if so, how? https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2422 -- taken up [from
18:34:50 <Zakim> ... agendabot]
18:36:40 <giacomo-petri> jcraig: there are lot of scenarios where the engines align on specific heuristic cases, starting before ARIA existed, with tables, etc. to determine for example if they are real tables or not; webkit similar thing for list, but other implementors do not
18:37:39 <giacomo-petri> jcraig: we had an example on a big site with an aria-modal="true" preventing users to access the rest of the page
18:38:20 <giacomo-petri> jcraig: should we put somewhere (in aria specs or somewhere else) a documentation of how browsers do heuristics?
18:38:57 <giacomo-petri> spectranaut_: to start, we should collect first all the heuristics
18:39:18 <giacomo-petri> spectranaut_: so it's easier to discuss it concretely
18:39:37 <lola> Thank you!
18:39:54 <smockle> q+
18:40:04 <spectranaut_> q+ matt
18:40:09 <spectranaut_> q++ matt
18:40:16 <spectranaut_> ack +
18:40:47 <giacomo-petri> scott: we already have plenty of issues of things that are implemented differently by browsers and are not normatively defined
18:40:58 <giacomo-petri> scott: people would want to know this stuff
18:41:33 <giacomo-petri> Matt_King: agreeing with Scott
18:41:58 <spectranaut_> ack Matt_King
18:42:04 <spectranaut_> ack matt
18:42:38 <giacomo-petri> jcraig: the introduction of these items in normative should be on case by case basis
18:44:02 <giacomo-petri> Matt_King: one of the most important things is the information about what's happening, is often difficult to find. If there is a list of things documented it will help
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18:44:28 <lola> q+
18:44:29 <aaronlev> q+
18:44:31 <giacomo-petri> jcraig: I would take spectranaut_ suggestion putting it somwhere in non-normative for now
18:44:36 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2093
18:44:37 <spectranaut_> ack smockle
18:44:54 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2371/files
18:45:39 <giacomo-petri> smockle: reminded me the aria-labeledby vs aria-labelledby topic
18:46:47 <spectranaut_> q+ Matt_King
18:46:50 <spectranaut_> ack lola
18:46:54 <giacomo-petri> jcraig: we will have it documented somewhere in a non-normative and case by case we will decide to include it in normative
18:47:38 <smockle> q+
18:47:43 <spectranaut_> ack aaronlev
18:48:01 <giacomo-petri> giacomo-petri has joined #aria
18:50:35 <giacomo-petri> **sorry I was disconnected and I missed what Aaron said**
18:51:11 <keithamus> q+
18:51:12 <spectranaut_> aaron: I'm concerned this is a very big project, maybe we should consider it case by case
18:51:29 <giacomo-petri> jcraig: table seems a good place to start
18:51:35 <spectranaut_> aaron: also maybe these heuristic will be done by AI in the future
18:51:43 <np-at> Or maybe defining the fallback mechanisms for errors?
18:51:43 <np-at> E.G., If error condition A, attempt repair using one of the following in descending priority....
18:51:54 <giacomo-petri> jcraig: someone can create some wpt test for understand how tables are handled by browsers
18:52:01 <giacomo-petri> keith: it's in my list
18:52:15 <spectranaut_> ack keithamus
18:52:28 <spectranaut_> ack Matt_King
18:52:28 <giacomo-petri> jcraig: resolution: we decided it's a nice thing to do, assign to jcraig
18:53:11 <giacomo-petri> Matt_King: suggestion: primary audience is authors, we can add a page to the APG to have more visibility. I will be happy to support.
18:53:15 <lola> +1 to that suggestion
18:53:21 <spectranaut_> ack smockle
18:54:24 <giacomo-petri> smockle: suggestion: in addition to documenting how browsers repairs heuristically, we should also document this by logging messages to the authors (console) with some error code that can be referenced in docs
18:55:35 <giacomo-petri> jcraig: lot of ideas on how browser can improve the authors experience but unforunately it seems a slow process
18:55:48 <sarah> present+
18:56:07 <giacomo-petri> Zakim, end meeting
18:56:07 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been giacomo-petri, Rahim, smockle, katez, filippo-zorzi, Summer, CurtBellew, Daniel, StefanS, lola, siri, Adam_Page, keithamus, sarah
18:56:11 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
18:56:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/27-aria-minutes.html Zakim
18:56:19 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, giacomo-petri; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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