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14:55:55 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 1
14:56:02 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura
14:57:08 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#February_19-20%2C_2025
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15:02:04 <kaz> present+ Mahda_Noura, Michael_Koster, Tomoaki_Mizushima
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15:02:50 <mahda> present+ Mahda_Noura
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15:04:38 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner
15:04:46 <kaz> present+ Jan_Romann
15:04:51 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:04:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:05:02 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
15:05:03 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:05:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:05:29 <kaz> present+ Ege_Korkan
15:05:46 <kaz> present+ Luca_Barbato
15:05:47 <luca_barbato> luca_barbato has joined #wot-td
15:06:01 <kaz> present+ Ege, Koster
15:06:16 <kaz> q+
15:06:38 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:06:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:08:16 <cris7> cris7 has joined #wot-td
15:08:41 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
15:09:30 <cris7> ege: as a guest today we have Luca Barbato
15:09:47 <cris7> ... he is in the process to became an Invited Expert
15:09:54 <kaz> i|as a|topic: Guests|
15:09:56 <cris7> topic: Agenda
15:10:12 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#February_19-20%2C_2025 Agenda for today
15:10:20 <cris7> ege: we will discuss two main topics ids in TD and Registry for protocol bindings
15:10:25 <cris7> topic: Minutes
15:10:44 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2025/02/12-wot-td-minutes.html Feb-12
15:11:00 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:11:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:11:08 <cris7> ege: do we have any remarks?
15:11:08 <cris7> ... anything to change?
15:11:13 <cris7> ... minutes approved
15:11:19 <kaz> i|as a guest|scribenick: cris7|
15:11:20 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:11:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:11:40 <cris7> topic: ID optionality
15:11:43 <kaz> chair: Ege, Koster
15:11:58 <cris7> ege: the whole point is to make id mandatory again
15:12:09 <cris7> ... there has been multiple opinions
15:12:14 <cris7> ... coming from implementers
15:12:46 <kaz> i|the whole|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/2054 Issue 2054 - Reconsider id being optional|
15:12:48 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:12:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:12:55 <cris7> ... in the case of node-wot a random one is generated
15:13:16 <cris7> ... other people used similar strategies (filtering out TDs without IDs )
15:13:48 <cris7> ... in the past this topic was controversial as we had to do two CR
15:14:51 <JKRhb> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
15:14:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb
15:16:16 <cris7> ... implementers gave positive feedbacks for having a mandatory ID
15:17:12 <cris7> ... we can make it mandatory but "not static"
15:18:32 <cris7> ... main reason why we make it optional was that the ID could be use to track people associated with devices.
15:18:43 <cris7> q+
15:18:51 <luca_barbato> q+
15:19:33 <cris7> kaz: good summarization, we should think about different levels of ids for IoT systems
15:20:25 <cris7> ... potentially we might use encription in some use cases.
15:20:25 <kaz> ack k
15:20:30 <EgeKorkan> scribenick: EgeKorkan
15:22:07 <EgeKorkan> ca: thanks for the summary. I am ok to make it mandatory. Not making it permanent needs guidance for the implemeneters
15:22:17 <EgeKorkan> ca: should it change every hour or so?
15:22:25 <EgeKorkan> ek: I think it should change per network or instllation
15:22:36 <EgeKorkan> s/implemeneters/implementers
15:22:44 <EgeKorkan> s/instllation/installation
15:22:48 <JKRhb> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
15:22:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb
15:22:58 <cris7> scribenick: cris7
15:23:00 <EgeKorkan> q?
15:23:03 <cris7> ack c
15:23:20 <cris7> luca: I agree with the summary
15:23:54 <cris7> ... we should start to see if have consensus to build our own namespace
15:24:24 <cris7> ... right now if we want to use that we have to pick one of the specific namespaces that are avaible
15:24:37 <cris7> ... we don't have anything that is actually really fitting
15:25:08 <dape> q+
15:25:09 <cris7> ... it would be nice to have a short namespace right after urn:, example urn:wot
15:25:44 <cris7> dape: we should reach out to the security group avoiding to change back
15:25:49 <kaz> q+
15:25:58 <cris7> ege: the idea is to have WG consensus first
15:26:05 <cris7> ... then ask them for feedback
15:26:06 <dape> ack dape
15:26:17 <cris7> ... if we get a greenlight we proceed with a PR
15:26:24 <cris7> ack lu
15:26:35 <luca_barbato> https://www.iana.org/assignments/urn-namespaces/urn-namespaces.xhtml
15:26:52 <cris7> s/security group/security and privacy group/
15:27:23 <cris7> kaz: there is also the possibility to use DID as a potential ID for Thing Descriptions
15:27:43 <kaz> q-
15:27:51 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:27:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:28:19 <cris7> ege: should we register a schema in IANA?
15:28:22 <cris7> luca: yes
15:28:33 <cris7> ege: for DID we should register a DID method
15:29:08 <cris7> ... for a IANA we have first to create a section in the specification and then we should be ready to register it.
15:29:17 <cris7> q+
15:29:41 <kaz> s/there is also the possibility/recently we got new Team Contacts for the Privacy WG and the Security IG, so we can start to talk with them too. In addition, technically, there is a possibility|
15:29:54 <kaz> s/possibility|/possibility/
15:29:56 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:29:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:30:03 <kaz> q?
15:30:12 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:30:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:30:29 <EgeKorkan> scribenick: EgeKorkan
15:31:00 <EgeKorkan> ca: I like the idea of registering DID method or URN namespace
15:31:26 <EgeKorkan> ... what is the advantage of registering the namespace at IANA or DID method?
15:32:16 <EgeKorkan> ... so creating something ourselves
15:32:24 <cris7> scribenick: cris
15:32:31 <kaz> q+
15:32:33 <cris7> scribenick: cris7
15:32:40 <kaz> ack cris
15:32:48 <cris7> luca: now id is any kind of URI
15:32:54 <kaz> q+ luca_barbato
15:32:58 <kaz> q- later
15:33:16 <dape> q+
15:33:30 <cris7> ... having a constant namespace would make the implementers life easier
15:33:50 <cris7> ... and also easy to introduce for us
15:34:19 <cris7> ... we have options to format our own urn schema
15:34:29 <cris7> q+
15:35:00 <cris7> ... it is basically suggest to TD designers to use a fixed format
15:35:57 <cris7> kaz: we as WoT WG can define this kind of notation and registering it to IANA but I'm quite skeptical because it would result as something as DID.
15:36:08 <cris7> ege: I see what you mean
15:36:24 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/did-1.0/#example-a-simple-did-document DID Core spec
15:36:58 <kaz> s/we as/Technically, we as/
15:37:02 <EgeKorkan> q?
15:37:05 <EgeKorkan> ack l
15:37:06 <EgeKorkan> ack k
15:37:16 <kaz> s/I'm quite/I'm a bit/
15:37:30 <kaz> s/something as/something like/
15:37:57 <cris7> dape: I second what has been said, we can provide guidance about one can or should use. however I'm strongly against to mandate one single format.
15:38:16 <cris7> ... I would not force any particular format, but we can register our own.
15:38:32 <dape> ack dape
15:38:38 <EgeKorkan> scribenick: EgeKorkan
15:39:17 <EgeKorkan> ca: if we force the use of urn or did, we lose the use case of using the url where the TD is fetched in the first place
15:39:34 <luca_barbato> q+
15:39:35 <EgeKorkan> ... so enforcing a format will block doing that
15:39:53 <cris7> ack cris
15:39:58 <EgeKorkan> ... maybe he is already using the id as a URL so it can break implementation
15:40:04 <cris7> scribenick: cris7
15:40:11 <kaz> q+
15:40:36 <cris7> luca: we are not proposing to change what is the ID, we are just saying that is mandatory.
15:41:34 <cris7> ... I'm still okey to leave the id string to be any kind of string
15:41:38 <cris7> ... I'm still okey to leave the id string to be any kind of URI
15:42:22 <cris7> ... I would just add some additional guidance (which is needed from the implementation pov)
15:42:59 <cris7> kaz: Luca is correct, the original concern of the privacy group was to use Global unique ids
15:43:23 <cris7> ... so we should answer what kind of IDs to be use and how to use it
15:43:51 <EgeKorkan> q?
15:43:55 <EgeKorkan> ack l
15:43:57 <EgeKorkan> ack k
15:47:55 <cris7> ege: ok so we have consensus on 3 points: id is mandatory, is not globally unique or permanent, it should not be in a specific format but guidance of which format to use is needed.
15:48:06 <cris7> q+
15:49:38 <cris7> cris: about point 2 this means that I can't use UUIDs?
15:49:47 <cris7> ege: well if they are not permanent then you can
15:50:06 <kaz> q+
15:51:10 <cris7> kaz: is it a should or a must ?
15:51:29 <luca_barbato> +1 for SHOULD
15:51:31 <cris7> ege: in my opinion it should be a must
15:51:39 <dape> +1 for SHOULD
15:52:11 <cris7> ege: if it is a SHOULD we can still encounter privacy issues
15:52:37 <cris7> luca: but there might cases where you cannot get away with immutability of the ID
15:54:07 <kaz> s/is it a should or a must ?/is it a should or a must? I personally we should say "SHOULD" here at the moment./
15:54:25 <kaz> s/personally/personally think/
15:54:32 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:54:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:55:09 <cris7> topic: binding registry
15:55:43 <cris7> ege: we have split all the controversial topics in sub issues
15:55:59 <cris7> ... the one that are ready to landed have the PR needed label
15:56:08 <cris7> ... we have two PRs ready
15:56:19 <EgeKorkan> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/411
15:56:25 <cris7> subtopic: PR Handling Conflicting submissions 411
15:57:05 <kaz> q+
15:57:32 <kaz> @@@411 link here
15:57:58 <cris7> ack cris
15:58:21 <kaz> q-
15:58:33 <cris7> kaz: are all the sections under registry mechanism?
15:58:36 <cris7> ege: yes.
15:58:39 <cris7> ... any other comments?
15:59:05 <cris7> ... ok PR approved and merged.  The document is still in the draft status
15:59:26 <kaz> s/are all the sections under registry mechanism?/All the sub issues derived from the questions within the registry requirements doc have the "registry mechanism" label. Right?/
15:59:29 <cris7> subtopic: PR 412
15:59:39 <cris7> ege: this is about summary document
16:00:38 <kaz> i|this is|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/412 PR 412 - Adding Summary Document Requirements|
16:00:44 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:00:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:01:23 <kaz> s/topic: binding registry/topic: Binding Registry/
16:01:57 <cris7> ege: any remarks for this PR?
16:02:00 <cris7> q+
16:02:57 <cris7> cris: does the reviewer have access to the real binding document not only this summary?
16:03:00 <cris7> ege: yes
16:03:07 <cris7> ege: PR accepted and merged
16:03:16 <cris7> [adjourned]
16:03:39 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:03:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:04:28 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/411|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/411 PR 411 - Handling Conflicting Submissions|
16:04:46 <kaz> s/PR Handling Conflicting submissions 411/PR 411/
16:04:47 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:04:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
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