12:57:28 RRSAgent has joined #wot 12:57:32 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-irc 12:57:32 meeting: WoT-WG/IG 12:57:37 present+ Kaz_Ashimura 12:58:05 rrsagent, make log public 12:58:10 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:58:11 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:58:36 dezell has joined #wot 12:58:43 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#19_February_2025 12:58:46 present+ David_Ezell 12:59:43 McCool has joined #wot 13:01:27 present+ Michael_Koster 13:01:27 mahda has joined #wot 13:02:08 mjk has joined #wot 13:03:09 present+ Ege_Korkan, Kunihiko_Toumura, Luca_Barbato, Jan_Romann, Tomoaki_Mizushima 13:03:15 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:03:16 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:03:45 I am in the Zoom. Let me double check... 13:04:13 rrsagent, please draft the minutes 13:04:14 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html JKRhb 13:04:35 Mizushima has joined #wot 13:05:24 present+ Michael_McCool 13:05:26 Charith has joined #wot 13:05:39 present+ Charith_Perera 13:05:51 present+ Mahda_Noura 13:05:58 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:06:00 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:06:06 chair: McCool 13:06:06 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:06:07 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:06:13 scribenick: JKRhb 13:06:13 luca_barbato has joined #wot 13:06:13 topic: Agenda Review 13:06:24 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#19_February_2025 Agenda for today 13:06:27 mm: We will just quickly go through the list and see what is new 13:06:33 ... do not think we have any guests 13:06:36 kaz: No one 13:06:43 mm: Oh, I see Luca is here 13:06:57 ... he is between memberships so to speak, so we invited him as a guest 13:07:09 s/guest/guest for today/ 13:07:11 ... and I think, Luca, you want to put yourself forward as an IE 13:07:15 lb: Yes 13:07:20 mm: We can do this now or later 13:07:26 ... we have this process regarding IEs 13:07:33 ... want to keep this consistent 13:07:42 ... IEs are asked to do a presentation 13:07:49 ... Luca, you have already contributed 13:08:08 ... so we mainly want to ask to how much people can contribute 13:08:24 ... so, Luca, if you want to present your case, we can go forward with that now 13:08:34 lb: I prepared some slides, we can do that now 13:08:41 ... (starts sharing his screen) 13:08:55 ... so, I am me 13:09:09 ... and I am involved in quite a bit of open source communities 13:09:37 ... and standard bodies, e.g. IETF, AoMedia, and of course W3C 13:09:45 ... also implementor of WoT in Rust 13:09:54 ... deals with profiles, discovery 13:09:57 ... works on bare metal 13:10:00 ... had a demo 13:10:12 ... also supports Linux, as demonstrated in SIFIS home 13:10:28 ... main interest is helping with progressing TD 2.0 13:10:41 mm: Okay, so main question is how much time you can contribute to WoT 13:10:53 lb: As I told you, I had to redruce my involvement 13:11:02 ... shrinking my involvement just to TD and Profiles 13:11:23 ... and probably would like to double-check the status on who is going to be the TF lead 13:11:29 s/redruce/reduce/ 13:11:38 ... since I am not sure whether this issue has been resolved already 13:11:56 mm: Just wanted to ask how many hours you are able to contribute as this is part of our policy 13:12:07 lb: Plan to at least attend TD and profile calls 13:12:16 ... and participate in the main call whenever it is needed 13:12:32 ... idea is at least four hours being present and background preparations 13:12:39 s/profile ca/Profile ca/ 13:12:48 mm: Minimum commitment is 2 hours and you are above that 13:13:01 dape has joined #wot 13:13:11 ... we can make a resolution right now or make a call for resolution for two weeks from now 13:13:14 q+ 13:13:25 ... technically, the chairs make the decision, so this would be a recommendation 13:13:26 q- 13:14:08 mm: Is it only the WG? Or also the IG? 13:14:20 kaz: IG can be part of it as well, I think 13:14:26 mm: So let's do both then 13:14:27 proposal: The WoT WG recommends that Luca Barbato is appointed as an Invited Expert to the WoT WG and the WoT IG recommends that he be appointed also as an Invited Expert to the WoT IG. 13:14:49 mm: This is the proposal, consensus-based, so if no one objects, we consider it passed 13:15:06 q+ 13:15:23 q- 13:15:23 kaz: Just to make sure, technically the chairs confirm 13:15:36 mm: That is why I put "recommends" in the proposal 13:15:46 ... but I rather consider this a group decision 13:16:02 ... asking the chairs to confirm Luca as an IE 13:16:12 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 13:16:12 s/chairs confirm/chairs assign the IEs :)/ 13:16:12 resolution: The WoT WG recommends that Luca Barbato is appointed as an Invited Expert to the WoT WG and the WoT IG recommends that he be appointed also as an Invited Expert to the WoT IG. 13:16:13 No objections, resolution has passed 13:16:36 mm: We will deal with moderations of the calls later 13:16:57 s/the chairs/the Chairs (and the Team Contact)/ 13:17:03 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:17:04 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:17:17 s/the calls/the profile TF/ 13:17:28 s/I am in the Zoom. Let me double check...// 13:17:43 mm: Technically, this is a provisional resolution, so people have two weeks to object, as a general policy 13:17:56 topic: Minutes Review 13:18:15 mm: Reviewed these in the chairs call, fixed a couple of typos, generally they look good now 13:18:26 ... resolved the issue regarding the inclusiveness 13:18:50 i|Reviewed|-> https://www.w3.org/2025/02/12-wot-minutes.html Feb-12| 13:19:02 ... made some small changes to the English, but the content stayed the same 13:19:03 present+ Daniel_Peintner 13:19:16 ... (goes through the rest of the minutes) 13:19:31 ... anybody have anything they want to change in the minutes? 13:19:48 No objections, minutes are approved 13:19:54 q+ 13:19:56 topic: Quick Items 13:20:04 sebastian has joined #wot 13:20:29 kaz: Still some discussions regarding the Scripting API and its extension to Web Browsers, maybe Daniel and Cristiano want to give some quick update 13:20:45 mm: Could be reported under the respective agenda item 13:21:00 kaz: Had some discussion regarding the registry earlier, that is why I was asking 13:21:06 mm: Can also do it now 13:21:50 -> https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-script-minutes.html#2346 Feb-19 Scripting minutes 13:22:10 dp: Had some discussion in today's call about an issue you opened some time ago, discussed that WoT could work as a library, Scripting API could be provided a polyfill and be limited to existing Browser API (fetch, WebSockets, ...) 13:22:17 ... that would be fine for us 13:22:50 mm: Question is whether you can run everything WoT in the browser, question if you can open a socket in the browser 13:23:02 ... need to clarify, in theory it would be possible, right? 13:23:19 dp: Currently, we only support the client 13:23:21 q+ 13:23:26 ... depends on browser vendors 13:23:28 q+ 13:23:34 ... not sure whether we can support servers right now 13:23:49 mm: Client side only would also be fine, interesting use case in general 13:24:00 ack k 13:24:09 kaz: At least for today, Daniel and Cristiano wanted to give a heads up 13:24:19 q- 13:24:25 mm: Go to the Scripting API for further discussions then 13:24:29 topic: Notices 13:24:36 mm: Any new announcements? 13:24:37 s/heads up/heads-up, the detailed discussion can continued during the Scripting calls./ 13:24:38 None 13:24:51 topic: Meetups 13:24:58 subtopic: WoT CG 13:25:07 ek: There is going to be a meetup after the TD call 13:25:08 q? 13:25:25 mm: Please put up a recording, can't make it unfortunately 13:25:48 @@@ 13:26:01 mm: Then we have the regular office hours 13:26:14 ... any other WoT CG news? 13:26:17 ek: No 13:26:25 subtopic: WoT JP CG 13:26:26 -> https://www.w3.org/2025/02/17-smart-cities-minutes.html Feb-17 Smart Cities IG Slot 1 minutes 13:26:28 No updates here 13:26:36 -> https://www.w3.org/2025/02/17-smart-cities-minutes.html Feb-18 Smart Cities IG Slot 2 minutes 13:26:37 subtopic: Smart Cities IG 13:26:57 kaz: I've put the minutes of the two meetings earlier this week above 13:27:06 ... discussed the charter topics 13:27:22 ... group will hold the next meeting as a consolidated meeting in March 13:27:28 ... on Monday, the 17th 13:27:44 ... will make discussing the topics much easier, will also invite related SDOs 13:27:53 ... will be discussed via GitHub 13:28:11 ... time will be 6 AM Eastern, due to US Daylight Saving Time 13:28:18 ... will also impact Japan and Europe 13:28:25 mm: Yeah, let's discuss that later 13:28:55 ... maybe, what we should do here is provide a link to the W3C calendar 13:29:08 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-smart-cities/2025Feb/0001.html Kaz's announcement on the time change 13:29:31 ... so there is only going to be one meeting now, time will be shifted 13:29:52 kaz: There is also another meeting by the Smart Cities CG, so please join that meeting as well 13:30:05 subtopic: Cloud-Edge-Client Coordination CG 13:30:25 mm: Hopefully there is going be a meeting soon, still in the process of launching 13:30:31 topic: Liasons 13:30:35 s/There is also another meeting by the Smart Cities CG, so please join that meeting as well/Technically, Smart Cities IG is a different group from the WoT groups, so please join the Smart Cities IG also if you're interested :)/ 13:30:51 subtopic: ECHONET 13:30:55 mm: Anything new here? 13:31:00 kaz: Nothing new here 13:31:08 subtopic: Conexxus 13:31:28 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:31:29 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:32:07 dl: Still struggling a bit at the moment, still discussing PCI(?) regulations, can we discuss this at some point, Michael? 13:32:11 i/Still some/subtopic: Scripting API for Web Browsers/ 13:32:12 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:32:13 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:32:21 q+ 13:32:31 mm: Should maybe discuss this in the TD call, generally, feel free to reach out for help 13:32:54 s/PCI(?)/PCI (Payment Card Industry)/ 13:33:00 ack k 13:33:35 dl: PCI refers to regulations regarding financial transactions and related security requirements 13:33:42 present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch 13:33:44 subtopic: OPC Foundations 13:34:03 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:34:04 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:34:12 sk: Making good progress, discussing security aspects, everything is welcome to join the next meeting on the 25th 13:34:26 mm: Can you create a W3C calendar entry for that? 13:34:30 sk: Good idea 13:35:03 ek: The next iteration of the WoT Connectivity spec is finished, right? 13:35:31 sk: Good point, it is a different working group lead by Erich Barnsted, is now under review, has reached version 1.1 13:35:51 i|I've put|@@@minutes link here| 13:35:52 ... but it is independent of W3C, so there is no chance to get a version for review 13:35:52 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:35:54 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:36:14 i|Yeah, let's|@@@time change link here| 13:36:20 ... need to wait until it is published, is also only using the WoT standard for their use cases, no extensions 13:36:34 mm: I guess, if you want to review it, you need to join the group 13:36:41 sk: Correct, I am also active their 13:36:44 s/their/there/ 13:36:52 subtopic: ETSI ISG CIM 13:37:01 mm: Last meeting was on Monday 13:37:14 ... next meeting will be cancelled due to a holiday in Japan 13:37:25 ... will turn to a bi-weekly schedule on average 13:37:25 i|Last meeting|-> https://www.w3.org/2025/02/17-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html Feb-17 minutes| 13:37:40 ... apparently, a lot of conflicts on Mondays 13:37:56 ... generally, we discussed how the broker actually works 13:38:01 s/time will be 6 AM Eastern, due to US Daylight Saving Time/The meeting time will be shifted to 6am Eastern./ 13:38:06 ... discussed how to import TDs 13:38:29 ... there seem to be some compability issues with the RDF they are using 13:38:48 s/will also impact Japan and Europe/but Japan and Europe will get impacted by the US Daylight Saving Time.../ 13:38:51 ... not sure how to resolve and align the two standards 13:38:56 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:38:58 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:39:04 ... need to sit down and test it and discover the issues 13:39:26 ... the minutes in the Wiki seem to be outdated, will update them 13:39:28 ... (adjusts the Wiki) 13:39:50 ... meeting is open to everyone, please join if you are interested in smart cities 13:40:03 ... currently, there is not that much attendance, but I was there was 13:40:24 kaz: Getting additional use cases would be great, thank you for coordinating this 13:40:58 mm: Currently, I am still scratching my head about how to align the two standards conceptually, e.g., with regard to @type 13:41:00 s/additional use cases/concrete use cases and gap analysis (between NGSI-LD and WoT)/ 13:41:03 ... but we are making progress 13:41:08 topic: Cancellations 13:41:18 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#Holidays_and_Upcoming_Events Holidays and Events 13:41:32 mm: There is a holiday in Japan, so we are going to cancel the 24th of February 13:41:54 ... we will also cancel the main and the TD call on the 26th, since Kaz will be unavailable 13:42:07 s/main and/main call and/ 13:42:09 ... TD call on the 27th will be held) 13:42:17 s/)// 13:42:17 s/held)/held./ 13:42:29 ... any more cancellations? 13:42:30 None 13:42:35 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:42:36 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:43:19 sk: Also, a heads up to March 3 to 7, when Sebastian is not going to be available 13:43:39 ... not consistent across countries, so we are not going to cancel due to that in March 13:43:48 q? 13:43:57 topic: Schedule 13:44:07 mm: Need to really think about our publication schedule 13:44:13 ... have some things coming up in March 13:44:43 -> https://www.w3.org/2023/10/wot-wg-2023.html WG Charter ends on 2 Oct 2025 13:44:48 ... we have to start our process in mid-March, but I don't think we are ready yet 13:44:59 ... this is only regarding Recs, Notes are different 13:45:11 ... we have some different choices here 13:45:14 q+ 13:45:22 ... simplest choice would probably an extension 13:45:31 ... need to think about choices 13:45:38 q- 13:45:45 kaz: Think about how much time we would need 13:45:59 s/Think/Need to think/ 13:46:10 JKRhb: + 13:46:12 s/how much time/how long extension/ 13:46:14 q+ 13:46:23 mm: TD task force should come up with how much time they need and then make extension based on that 13:46:24 s/JKRhb: +// 13:46:28 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:46:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:46:48 ek: Maybe my main question is how many promises of the charter we fulfill and if we do a TD 2.0 13:46:52 q+ 13:47:05 ... if we do everything in the charter then we definitely need more time 13:47:19 mm: Should do a prioritization 13:47:30 ... check whether we can hit the December dealine 13:47:36 s/dealine/deadline/ 13:47:45 ek: That was 2024 13:48:06 mm: Should come up with three dates, minimum-viable, main goals, stetch-goals 13:48:21 ... then we can evaluate what we can make here 13:48:46 ... already need to think about a charter extension, as we won't be able to make it within two weeks 13:49:02 kaz: Agree with Michael, need to recognize what we have done so far 13:49:29 ... e.g., restructuring, policies, etc., then we should evaluate what we can do until the end of the current charter period 13:49:53 ... and then we can see how much we will be able to do after that and discuss with the policy team 13:49:59 s/policy/strategy/ 13:50:01 q? 13:50:11 mm: The other option would be another charter 13:50:19 kaz: Would require an AC review 13:50:26 ack e 13:50:27 ack k 13:50:28 ... so an extension might be easier 13:50:38 s/might be/would be/ 13:50:39 mm: Maxmimum extension is a year 13:50:49 ... so don't go crazy 13:50:51 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:50:52 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:51:07 kaz: Default extension is six months, but we could try that twice 13:51:24 ... after identifying the required time, we could extend twice 13:51:37 ... my personal impression is that one year would really be needed 13:51:45 topic: Policies 13:52:00 mjk: Nothing new to review here 13:52:06 ... hopefully in two weeks 13:52:14 topic: TF Leads 13:52:19 s/would really/might 13:52:31 subtopic: The thing I want to discuss here is profiles 13:52:51 ... Ben applied for a grant to work on Profiles, would like to make him a co-moderator 13:52:52 s/needed/needed. Anyway, let's start the analysis of the status, and I can talk with PLH based on the results./ 13:52:54 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:52:55 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:53:04 ... any comment on that, Luca? 13:53:22 lb: Could repeat what I said via email, strongly support this 13:53:39 ... in the past year, Ben and I were the most active 13:53:50 ... so having him as a co-lead would sort of natural 13:53:50 s/subtopic: The thing I want to discuss here is profiles/mm: The thing I want to discuss here is profiles/ 13:54:01 i|The thing I|subtopic: Profile| 13:54:03 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:54:04 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:54:10 mm: Would like to make a resolution next time 13:54:24 ... please let us know via email, if there are objections 13:54:30 topic: TF Reports 13:54:32 q+ 13:54:37 subtopic: Use Cases 13:54:46 mm: Call was cancelled today 13:54:49 q- 13:54:52 subtopic: Scripting API 13:54:57 present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi 13:55:07 There was an update by Daniel earlier 13:55:16 s/subtopic: Scripting API// 13:55:35 i|There was|subtopic: Scripting API| 13:55:42 s/There/kaz: There/ 13:55:46 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:55:47 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:55:53 mm: We will not cancel the use case call next week 13:56:12 q+ 13:56:19 ... will update the calendar 13:56:23 i|We will|subtopic: Use Cases - revisited| 13:57:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:57:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:57:08 https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20label%3A%22registry%20mechanism%22 13:57:23 i|https|subtopic: TD / Binding| 13:57:25 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:57:26 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:57:32 ek: Will review issues in the binding templates 13:57:38 s/binding templates/binding templates repository/ 13:57:48 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:57:50 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:58:29 ... during the WoT conference/F2F we discussed the initial connection, need to have some kind of algorithm related to canonicalization 13:58:42 ... will be needed for TD 2.0 13:58:56 mm: Also talked to the JSON-LD guys about this, need to keep this in mind 13:59:18 s/JSON-LD/NGSI-LD/ 13:59:26 topic: AOB 13:59:27 None 13:59:31 [adjourned] 13:59:47 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:59:48 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 14:03:39 s/6am Eastern/6am Pacific/ 14:03:40 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:03:41 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 15:02:37 mahda has joined #wot 15:54:42 TallTed has joined #wot 15:57:45 denkeni has joined #wot 15:58:17 Zakim has left #wot 16:11:53 bigbluehat has joined #wot 16:50:21 dlehn1 has joined #wot 17:07:46 JKRhb has joined #wot 17:24:22 JKRhb has joined #wot 17:45:05 JKRhb has joined #wot 17:58:04 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 18:02:41 JKRhb has joined #wot 18:18:11 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 18:30:30 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 19:20:56 JKRhb has joined #wot 20:15:34 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 20:49:52 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 20:51:17 ktoumura has joined #wot 20:54:28 JKRhb has joined #wot 21:00:54 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 21:52:04 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 22:02:02 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 22:37:52 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 22:56:16 JKRhb has joined #wot 23:02:55 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 23:53:12 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 23:55:40 JKRhb has joined #wot